Questions About TRT Replacement and its Effects

[toogoods]

I started TRT Replacement on 7/14/16 which basically 3 days ago, and I had a few questions in mind. The reason I had started was I had the following symptoms. Heres my stats and dose and my current diet is below.

Age: 31
Weight: 166llbs
Dieting for 10 weeks:
Starting weight: 189, 25% BF
Current weight: 166lbs 17% BF
Current Training- 5 days a week(90 mins min) 3 HIIT, 1 LIIS(1 hour)
Current Lifts- Deadlift 1RM(365lbs) , Squat 1 RM (255lbs), BENCH( N/A, due to issue with joint or tendintits in the shoulder)
Current Dose: 150mg Test Cyp, .5mg of Arimdex x2 week
Testosterone Total- 620 NG/DL--LAB RANGE--(250-1100)
Testosterone Free- 90 pg/ml---LAB RANGE...(35.5-155.0)

Symptons that Made me get on TRT:

- Extreme Fatigue
- Belly Fat( never been able to rid of it) 4 years+ dieting and hard work
- Feeling depress , noone in my family is remotely depressed or have a history of it, I would wake up feeling it like wtf??
- Right Shoulder feels like Tendinitis , had a cortosone shot and MRI and still nothing helps, Shoulder is perfectly healthy
- Can't hold on to muscle during a cut at all, regardless of the diet type, or slight deficit
- I put more fat then muscle on(even when diet is impeccable)


Question 1----If i ever wanted to come off or see how i feel after 6-12 months, can I? is there a chance that I will struggle without it?

Question 2---- It's been 3 days now since my shot and I honestly can say, HOLY SHIT!, I'm not sure what's going on, but I feel way way more energtic when I wake up, and for the first time in over a year I had a morning wood! is this the effects of Test Cyp? I thought it takes much longer to feel the benefits? or does that vary from person to person?

Question 3---Once you start TRT, does that mean my current test numbers would drop Dramatically or slightly? If I decide to get off at some point?

Question 4--- The cost doesn't bother me , its just the fact i have to rely on a hormone replacement to feel better? Could some point in time when i try to get off, that I could possibly feel better?

Question 5---- Lastly Is the TRT drawbacks of coming off it , that bad? I can't seem to find enough solid information on this , as this is dependent on per person/ PCT, I mean I can't imagine there test being worse then before and if it was, would it be a big difference in terms of how they feel before they started TRT?

Thanks again for the help and input!


Diet:


Weeks 1 and 3
LC

Meal 1 - 10.5 oz - Egg whites, 2 tbsps - Olive Oil, 3/4 cup - Broccoli

Meal 2 - 4.5 oz - Chicken, 3/8 cup - Pistachios, 3/4 cup - Broccoli

Meal 3 - 4 oz - Tuna, 1.5 oz - Brown Rice, 3/4 cup - Spinach

Workout

Meal 4 - 1 1/2 scoops - Whey protein, 2 oz - Jasmine Rice, 3/4 cup - Asparagus

Meal 5 - 4.5 oz - Chicken, 1.5 oz - Brown Rice, 2 tbsps - Olive Oil, 3/4 cup - Broccoli

Meal 6 - 4 oz - Tuna, 2 tbsps - Olive Oil, 3/4 cup - Broccoli


HC

Meal 1 - 11 oz - Egg whites, 7 oz - Sweet Potato, 1 tbsp - Olive Oil, 3/4 cup - Mushrooms

Meal 2 - 4 oz - Lean Beef, 1.5 oz - Brown Rice, 1 tbsp - Olive Oil, 3/4 cup - Spinach

Meal 3 - 4 oz - Tuna, 1.5 oz - Brown Rice, 3/4 cup - Spinach

Workout

Meal 4 - 1 1/2 scoops - Whey protein, 3 oz - Wheat Pasta

Meal 5 - 4.5 oz - Chicken, 1.5 oz - Wheat Pasta, 1 tbsp - Olive Oil, 3/4 cup - Asparagus

Meal 6 - 4 oz - Lean Beef, 1.5 oz - Brown Rice, 1 tbsp - Olive Oil, 3/4 cup - Green Beans

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Weeks 2 and 4
LC

Meal 1 - 1 1/2 scoops - Whey protein

Meal 2 - 10.5 oz - Egg whites, 2 tbsps - Olive Oil, 3/4 cup - Spinach

Meal 3 - 4.5 oz - Chicken, 1.5 oz - Brown Rice, 2 tbsps - Olive Oil, 3/4 cup - Spinach

Workout

Meal 4 - 1 1/2 scoops - Whey protein, 7.5 oz - Sweet Potato

Meal 5 - 4.5 oz - Chicken, 5.5 oz - Sweet Potato, 2 tbsps - Olive Oil, 3/4 cup - Mushrooms

Meal 6 - 4 oz - Lean Beef, 2 tbsps - Olive Oil, 3/4 cup - Spinach


HC

Meal 1 - 11 oz - Egg whites, 1.5 oz - Cream of Wheat, 1/2 tbsp - Olive Oil, 3/4 cup - Broccoli

Meal 2 - 1 1/2 scoops - Whey protein, 1.5 oz - Wheat Pasta, 1/2 tbsp - Olive Oil, 3/4 cup - Broccoli

Meal 3 - 4.5 oz - Chicken, 1.5 oz - Wheat Pasta, 1/2 tbsp - Olive Oil, 3/4 cup - Spinach

Workout

Meal 4 - 1 1/2 scoops - Whey protein, 2.5 oz - Cream of Wheat

Meal 5 - 4.5 oz - Chicken, 1.5 oz - Wheat Pasta, 13 nuts - Pistachios, 3/4 cup - Asparagus

Meal 6 - 4 oz - Tuna, 1.5 oz - Brown Rice, 1/2 tbsp - Sesame Oil, 3/4 cup - Broccoli

 

[RickRock]

Bro, your levels are completely fine, so I have no idea why you would even go on TRT. Did your doctor put you on TRT? From the looks of your levels you don't need it at all, and whatever you are experiencing right now is 100% placebo. You are on a long Ester which takes about 4 weeks to really start kicking in.

In answer to all the rest of your questions, you need to understand that TRT is nothing to take lightly. It's a lifetime commitment, because you will completely shutdown your natural production of testosterone and the longer you are on, the less likely you can come off and recover. You seem to be confused about this. Once you go on TRT you commit to it and don't come off. Since you don't even need it, I don't know why you are pursuing it. All the issues you are having have to do with something else because your test levels are just fine. It makes no sense to shut yourself down with TRT just to out your levels right where you would just about be naturally

 

[toogoods]

Bro, your levels are completely fine, so I have no idea why you would even go on TRT. Did your doctor put you on TRT? From the looks of your levels you don't need it at all, and whatever you are experiencing right now is 100% placebo. You are on a long Ester which takes about 4 weeks to really start kicking in.

In answer to all the rest of your questions, you need to understand that TRT is nothing to take lightly. It's a lifetime commitment, because you will completely shutdown your natural production of testosterone and the longer you are on, the less likely you can come off and recover. You seem to be confused about this. Once you go on TRT you commit to it and don't come off. Since you don't even need it, I don't know why you are pursuing it. All the issues you are having have to do with something else because your test levels are just fine. It makes no sense to shut yourself down with TRT just to out your levels right where you would just about be naturally

Thanks for the reply!

To answer your question!

These symptoms have been an issue for over 10 months now, I was seen by my MD, Endo, and i was referred from an ENDO to a TRT DOC.

The TRT Doc told me, that my levels were normal , but lower then he would like to see. I had blood drawn back in 2013 prior to before i was fat and i was hella high in 900+ I felt great.

He also stated the the FREE test was a little low end especially for my age and activity output/diet.

I was told that I could come off and see after 3-4 months of assessing and seeing how I feel.

I had no other options as I couldn't afford to feel those symptoms, it was seriously messing with my quality of life.

He told me in 3 months we will re-asses with bloodwork and see how I feel.

So That's why i asked about coming off and so forth.

The endo doc told me along with the TRT DOC that my T levels are dependent on per person, as in i did and felt best at 900 where i use to be and that 600 is could be low.

Lastly I want to state Rick that this 620 was the highest ive been in 3 years. I usually fluctuate from 435-625g nl, Free is the most important one according to both docs, and thats always been on the low end

I just wanted to know what others experience was like getting off TRT, I've heard they come off fine, or have bad withdraws(most likely they dont PCT right) and so forth.

 

[RedMorkai]

The free test is on the low side, they usually try to aim for at least 2% of total test as free test. But your total test is in 600's.

 

[RedMorkai]

I noticed libido changes almost immediately on trt. Other changes were more around 3-4 week mark for me.

 

[toogoods]

The free test is on the low side, they usually try to aim for at least 2% of total test as free test. But your total test is in 600's.

Yes I agree, The concern for them was that my free was low, and that made no sense. So that's why they tried this option for me.

 

[toogoods]

I did have a vitamin D deficit , pretty dam low

in April i was 15.7 NG/ML

which would be considered low , now its at

53.3ng/ml

 

[Flanex]

I noticed libido changes almost immediately on trt. Other changes were more around 3-4 week mark for me.

Same here


Also to the OP,your levels are much to high being in the 400-600 area to consider TRT.My doc said they needed to be under 200 which they were for me.Mine was 58 without TRT.

 

[Flanex]

I would definitely get a second opinion before making this lifelong commitment.

 

[toogoods]

I would definitely get a second opinion before making this lifelong commitment.

The plan was to try this method for 3 months and see if this helps at all, 3 years ago i was in the high 900 with a free of 145, and since then i dipped into the low 400s and i seem to go up and down a lot.

I am seeing the best TRT doc available in my city. He advised me to at most see how i feel after 3 months, and if i feel better to come off and see what happens then.

I stated before I had a vitamin d deficiency of 15 ng/ml which I think may of been affecting my overall mood, fatigure, muscle loss and etc, but i couldnt really be sure.

I don't plan on doing this long terms, Just going by my docs advise of 3 months max and go from there.

He even told me that my T is decent, but my FREE was low for my age.

So I'll see what happens after 3 months.

 

[toogoods]

I can go ahead and tell you after 3 months of running test from a bottle you will be shut down naturally. After coming off and a good pct your natural level will not be higher than they were before but more than likely lower and trt will be needed then. Your body right is quitting making test on its own because your injecting now . Your body is not going to magically produce more natural test after you come off synthetic test. It doesn't work that way. I can't believe your doc is doing a "test run" of 3 months . There's no doubt you will have higher test at the end and during for that matter but coming off to check and reevaluate numbers is ludicrous to me. Trt is for life unless your are having bad sides and have to come off and accept low T .

Well its complicated because again, I had a very low vitamin D issue, and that also can mimic low t symptoms as well. I was told by 2 endos and referred to a TRT doc. 600 may seem decent for my age, but that can also mean low as well. Its based of per person, But i kid you not the symptoms i experienced were definitely real and my test seemed fine, my free test is 94 : /

Im also understanding that by doing this i would be lower in my natural test overall.

 

[RickRock]

To me it would make much more sense to do something to increase free test rather than go on trt. You could lower SHBG a number of ways which will increase free test and libido. Proviron or some low dose aromasin would do well here. Did you have E2 levels or shbg checked?

(PM me for a price list for Biotech Labs and 10% discount)

 

[RickRock]

The problem is that if you are planning on coming off it makes no sense to go this route to see if it helps, because that benefit ends as soon as you come off and go right back to where you were

(PM me for a price list for Biotech Labs and 10% discount)

 

[toogoods]

To me it would make much more sense to do something to increase free test rather than go on trt. You could lower SHBG a number of ways which will increase free test and libido. Proviron or some low dose aromasin would do well here. Did you have E2 levels or shbg checked?

(PM me for a price list for Biotech Labs and 10% discount)

I had e2 checked and i was at 20 , which is in the normal range.

I said this before , but I can't prove it but I feel like Vitamin D3 being at 15 pg/ml when the range is 50 or higher, might mimic the same symptom as low T.

In just 2 months of supplementing 5000IU's of vitamin D3 my test went up 50 and most of all i went from 15 pg/ml to 54 pg/ml

Yet i felt still the same but slightly better....

If i were to quit TRT after 1 shot which was 3 days ago, would i be fine or would i need to PCT after 1 dose of 150mg of TEst cyp?

Im honestly starting to think my sever deficit of vitamin D might be the cause root. I can't prove it but from what i read it effects, T leves, mood, energy, fatigure, strength, and increase midsection fat?

Is this a possibility? My 2nd shot would be on thursday.

Honestly Im debating on just stopping it after starting it just 3 days ago, and getting my Vitamin D up higher, and seeing.

I didn't even take into account that I was dieting for 10 weeks as well.

 

[toogoods]

To me it would make much more sense to do something to increase free test rather than go on trt. You could lower SHBG a number of ways which will increase free test and libido. Proviron or some low dose aromasin would do well here. Did you have E2 levels or shbg checked?

(PM me for a price list for Biotech Labs and 10% discount)

Rick if i decide to discontinue TRT after just 1 injection, would i be alright? I do have 12 weeks worth of arimidex at hand for my TRT , but I think I may try to resolve my Vitamin D3 issue, It seems that it could take as long as 6 months to recover from a pretty low deficit, especially if im exhibiting the same systems that are closely related to Low T, but in my case i was hovering around 600s and that was after i started supplementing 5,000 IUs of D3. I think I will take this advice and bump my IUs for d3 to 7k until i get in higher range of vitamin D.

Never realized how bad it is to have low vitamin D, same symptoms as low T, smh.

 

[Flanex]

Most people are vitamin D deficient.I take 5000ius every day in the Summer & 10000 ED in the Winter.I feel a lot better since I've been doing this the past couple of years.

 

[toogoods]

Most people are vitamin D deficient.I take 5000ius every day in the Summer & 10000 ED in the Winter.I feel a lot better since I've been doing this the past couple of years.

See and that has me thinking that maybe when i saw the TRT DOC, because he stated even my levels of test were decent , but total was on the median range. WHat struck me odd now is when i look back about 18 months ago my t levels were in the high 800s with 134 free....

Vitamin D3 does alot more then i thought, and i'm beginning to wonder if i was mis-diagnosed..... I mean the symptoms are exacty the same as low T, practically the same! and it would definately explain my random shoulder hurting out of nowhere these past 2-3 months......

 

[jp1957]

Before I'd go TRT, I'd try clomid and nolvadex first for a month and see how you feel.

 

[RickRock]

I had e2 checked and i was at 20 , which is in the normal range.

I said this before , but I can't prove it but I feel like Vitamin D3 being at 15 pg/ml when the range is 50 or higher, might mimic the same symptom as low T.

In just 2 months of supplementing 5000IU's of vitamin D3 my test went up 50 and most of all i went from 15 pg/ml to 54 pg/ml

Yet i felt still the same but slightly better....

If i were to quit TRT after 1 shot which was 3 days ago, would i be fine or would i need to PCT after 1 dose of 150mg of TEst cyp?

Im honestly starting to think my sever deficit of vitamin D might be the cause root. I can't prove it but from what i read it effects, T leves, mood, energy, fatigure, strength, and increase midsection fat?

Is this a possibility? My 2nd shot would be on thursday.

Honestly Im debating on just stopping it after starting it just 3 days ago, and getting my Vitamin D up higher, and seeing.

I didn't even take into account that I was dieting for 10 weeks as well.

Honestly bro, even though 20 is technically in range with E2, that's pretty low. I know when my estrogen is that low I feel like dog shit, have no libido, etc which also probably could explain everything you are experiencing since I don't be.ieve it's test related. Most people feel good when their estrogen is in the 30-35pg range, and I actually feel good when it's a little higher than that.

It also explains why after one shot you started instantly feeling better. You haven't given the test enough time to start doing anything really EXCEPT aromatizing and helping your estrogen rise a little, which probably made you feel a lot better.

It's still speculation, but I'd be willing to bet if your estrogen went up to the 30-35 range WITHOUT being on test or TRT you'd feel 10x better. Just my thoughts

 

[RickRock]

Rick if i decide to discontinue TRT after just 1 injection, would i be alright? I do have 12 weeks worth of arimidex at hand for my TRT , but I think I may try to resolve my Vitamin D3 issue, It seems that it could take as long as 6 months to recover from a pretty low deficit, especially if im exhibiting the same systems that are closely related to Low T, but in my case i was hovering around 600s and that was after i started supplementing 5,000 IUs of D3. I think I will take this advice and bump my IUs for d3 to 7k until i get in higher range of vitamin D.

Never realized how bad it is to have low vitamin D, same symptoms as low T, smh.

Yes, you will be fine after one shot bro. No big deal at all. I'd honestly try to fix these other things before jumping on that TRT train. That's a pretty big deal and pretty big step, especially when in my honest opinion it's not needed for you