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TRT and steroids

boimoit

New member
Member
Thank you but the other senior members of the forum state that my body fat percentage of 18% is too high to begin an AAS cycle, so I'm a little confused. I know people carry their body fat differently, but am I to assume that 20% is 20% regardless of how it's dispersed or what your appearance is?

Does anyone else think i'd benefit from the original stated cycle + ancillaries mentioned?

It would be cool if we could continue the discussion, provided I get the green light to give it a whirl provided I get my diet under better control and incorporated more cardio as well

Thank u everyone!
 

DylanGemelli

Founding Member
Super Moderator
you are not 18% bro... 13-15% is where you are at and thats a significant difference... you are in much better condition than you led on which obviously changes things...
 

DylanGemelli

Founding Member
Super Moderator
there's no issue with you running a cycle... please tell me specifically what your goal is and have you ever used any other compounds in the past?
 

boimoit

New member
Member
Hey Dylan - ok cool because I was getting a bit discouraged with the whole body fat thing. The electronic BF meters at the gym may need to be recalibrated or I dunno the hell what.

Short answer to your immediate question is YES, years ago I used AAS (T. Cypionate/Deca/Boldenone) but for the last 8 yrs I have been cruising on 75mg/wk (3/8ths of a ml) under the supervision of an Endocrinologist (who of course i'm going to be cancelling a few visits on for about 3 months post cycle so my labs can return more in line with what he's used to seeing). Also, my goal on the cycle proposed below was to gain mass & strength and hopefully through proper dietary changes and more cardio, lose some additional body fat.

I'm going to repost my original post here in hopes that it answers your questions sufficient enough to be able to provide me with your opinion.


I'm 48 years old, 5'6" tall, 150lbs, body fat of 18% (bad bf meter??) (but forum members here say i'm around 13-15%) and have an ectomorph build.


I've been on TRT (Testosterone Cypionate) @ only 75mgs/week injection. My endocrinologist is very conservative, however this dose has raised my Total Testosterone from 250 to the mid 600 area.


I've lifted weights ever since I was 14 yrs old and have been consistently lifting throughout my entire life. Genetically, I'm naturally a hard gainer.


Over the course of my life, I've taken AAS cycles about a dozen times but never to the extreme dosages most men take them, as I'm a light weight.


Here is my question:


I decided I'd like to start a 12 week Testosterone Cypionate/Nandolone Decanoate cycle (just those two, as I'm looking to add size and reduce joint pain)


I have several 10ml vials of Testosterone Cypionate (200mg/ml) and Nandrolone Decanoate (300mg/ml), which I plan to dose EQUALLY starting with 200mg/wk each on week #1 & 2 then 300mg/wk each for the remainder of the cyclem then go back to cruising on the 75mg of Testosterone Cypionate like normal. From my research, guys on TRT do not need to go on PCT (unless you have a difference of conventional opinion)


I have an ample supply of ancillaries Cabergoline (.25 mg tablets) as a dopamine agonist/prolactin reducer ; and Arimidex (1mg tablets that i'll cut into quarters) to reduce Estrogen


I know that with any 19-Nor you must run Caber to reduce Progestin and typically you should use an AI to reduce the T Cypionate's conversion into Estrogen.


In your opinion, should I take BOTH the Cabergoline and Arimidex to reduce Prolactin and Estrogen while on this cycle? I recall reading that an AI isn't necessary while taking a 19-Nor but because I'm stacking with T. Cypionate, that it should be taken alongside the Caber.


If so, I was thinking Cabergoline .25mg every 3 days and Arimidex .25 every 3 days as well. Can both pills be taken at the same exact time, or should I space them apart by a few hours to avoid interactions? I believe the Cabergoline is best dosed prior to bed as some have complained of sides but I'm not sure what those sides would be.


I feel that @ between 250 - 300mg/wk of both T. Cypionate/Deca, the above dose of ancillaries would be sufficient.


But I defer to you for your opinion on the matter, and apologize in advance if any of my information is inaccurate. That's why I'm writing you so that I get the correct info and any other suggestions you have.


Thank you so much brother!

*************************************************

Part 2 below:

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In addition to the above...
I've been on TRT for over 8 years yet I've experienced absolutely no testicular atrophy or sexual side effects other than age related ED which I occasionally take Viagra/Cialis for. I'm pretty sexually active and have had no issues over the past 8+ years on TRT. Sometimes my Total Testosterone levels fluctuate from the 600 - 780 area and this really does depend on how many days AFTER I pin last, then take my blood labs. (ie: if I pin on a Wednesday then take labs that Friday, my Total T his much higher than if I wanted say 5-6 days after my last injection).

The anastrazole (arimidex) tablets are 1mg each so I was going to cut them into quarters and take .25mg every 3 days - unless you think that's too low a dose.* Again, I'm only going to be running between 250 - 300mg of both the T. Cypionate and Deca EQUALLY and didn't want to over dose either the Cabergoline or the Arimidex. I DO NOT have Aromasin on hand and felt the Arimidex at .25 E3D should provide me enough protection from the increase in Estrogen from T. Cypionate conversion (albeit I'm taking what I consider to be a low dose of T. Cypionate (200mg - 250mg) but may gradually increase it to 300mg per week along with the Deca Durabolin increase to 300mg/wk. I'm extremely sensitive to ANY increase in my testosterone dosage. As far as Nandrolone, I noticed a substantial increase in strength within DAYS of taking it and that usual "ringing in the ears" and feelings of wanting to get up at 3am and jog around the block a few times to take the edge off. (elevated blood pressure perhaps, or just overly sensitive to increases in Testosterone in general and this is how my body responds) For myself personally, the effects of this stack hit me much much faster than the 4-5 weeks I've heard from others.

One more thing, even though men on TRT don't need Post Cycle Therapy, I wanted to know your thoughts on running some hcg during the last week or two of my cycle? In the past, when I complained of lack of libido , my endo would have me take hcg injections (cant recall the dose, but it was very low) every few days while cruising on only 75mgs of T. Cypionate, to keep my testicals in gear and they felt fuller and I produced substantially more ejaculate (sorry) - but was wondering your opinion if I should dose hcg while on this cycle, would you suggest dosing during the latter stage of the cycle? I believe that hcg exogenously stimulates the production of FSH and LH, which common sense seems counter productive if the average NON TRT individual wants to stimulate his own body to begin producing it's own Testosterone, it would further depress his natural ability to produce his own FSH & LH.

I know I'm going to get "schooled" by forum participants telling me "Bro, you've been in TRT for over 8+ years man. Your hypothalamus/gonads have been done for, so there's no need to even bother using PCT, but my body is telling me that at such a low dose of 75 mg/wk that I've sorta been "Supplementing" my own T production rather than completely shutting it down. I can see if my Doctor had me pinning 150 - 250mg/wk for 8+ years, i'd be shut down - but with only 75mg?

As an aside, I also have Nolvadex 20mg tablets but I've heard that's a big NO NO when taking a 19-Nor. I don't believe Nolvadex belongs in a cycle while using a 19-Nor compound like Tren/Deca, and that the only ancillary needed was arimidex/aromasin as AI's for the T. Cypionate and the Cabergoline as a dopamine agonist/anti progestin for the Nandrolone. I'm not prone to getting gynocomastia and don't anticipate experiencing such on what I consider to be a relatively low dose. I normally start off with 200mg Test Cypionate and 200mg Nandrolone Decanoate, which from what I've been researching, is a fairly light cycle - but I'm a light individual and one that is VERY sensitive to AAS. I'm talking within 30 - 45 minutes of pinning, my heart rate escalates and I get that "headache" (u know the one). I try to take my injections immediately before going to bed , alongside some sleepy time herbs or a Xanax so I sleep through those sides. The following day I always wake up with a pounding headache (has to be blood pressure related) but feel very good at the gym. I'm not on any blood pressure medication, but have sufficient amounts of Losartan Potassium 25 & 50mg strength around in the event this becomes some sort of an issue. Typically just drinking 3/4 a gallon of water a day should help reduce my blood pressure and as mentioned before, donating blood every 56 days should help with any polycythemia/increase in RBC's, hemoglobin and hematocrit.

My final issue is elevated cholesterol. I've always (and I mean since I was a child) had cholesterol levels in the 180 - 240 area with HDL between 48-54 and LDL in the 150-170 area and Triglycerides around 85. My cholesterol/HDLC ratios are always around 4-5. So my endocrinologist started me on Atorvastatin 20mg and within 3 weeks my Total Cholesterol dropped to 156, my HDL cholesterol also decreased to 46, Triglycerides INCREASED to 112 and LDL cholesterol decreased to 86 (all smack in the middle of normal valuations)

Do I continue to take the Atorvastatin while going on this 12-14 week T. Cypionate/Nandrolone Decanoate cycle? I know statins are very taxing on the liver but thougt I'd be safe continuing to take them, as I'm not incorporating any liver sensitive orals on this cycle. I realize the best bet would be to get a liver enzyme blood test at an independent lab but I'm thinking at such a low dose of atorvastatin, this may not be necessary.

When my cycle ends on week 14, typical NON TRT users wait 2+ wks for the longer acting esters to clear their system prior to starting their Clomid/Nolvadex/Arimidex PCT but its interesting that those on TRT don't have to? This makes little sense because the longer acting esters from the 19-Nor would be still converting into progesterone and the elevated doses of T. Cypionate will continue to aromatize into Estrogen - so wouldn't it make sense to go on a 5-8 week cruise on an AI and Cabergoline to offset any lingering progestin/estrogen so that the 75mg T. Cypionate can resume without all this progestin/estrogen in the mix?

Sorry for the long post but I believe in doing my research and obtaining good qualified opinions ahead of starting.

Thanks for any info you can provide
 
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DylanGemelli

Founding Member
Super Moderator
bro, i need you to condense this... you cannot possibly expect me to read all of this getting thousands of questions per day... thats not even reasonable and you have not gotten a response from anyone due to that.. .people do not have that much time bro... i am going 50 angles at once... im happy to help but this is unreasonable to read all of this man
 

boimoit

New member
Member
Ok just wanted to give a complete history. Now keep in mind, my questions below are going to seem short and uninformative so if you have any general questions concerning my stats/history/reasons for doing this etc , it'll probably be answered in the novel above.

1. I've been on TRT for 8+ years. 75mgs T. Cypionate - Total Test Avg 650ng/dl and Total Free Test Avg 170pg/nl (above normal )

2. Am about to run a 12-14wk cycle of T. Cypionate 250 - 300mg/wk and Nandrolone Decanoate 250 - 300mg/wk with the hopes of adding size and reducing joint pain (I'm 48)

3. Ancillaries will be Dostinex .25mg twice a week and Arimidex .25mg twice a week

4. I have Nolvadex on "Standby" - 20mg tabs but not taking them with a 19-Nor

4. My bf is around 15-17% as per your opinion of my photograph (Aside from a little belly fat, I'm lookin ok)

5. My Cholesterol has been elevated but taking Atorvastatin (Lipitor 20mg/day). Cholesterol is now @156, HDL 46, LDL 86

6. I'm cleaning up my diet (lower fat, lower carbs, increasing protein, L-Glutamine, Juicing, wheat grass, lots of supps etc) and incorporating Cardio for about 30 min at the end of my workouts and on my off gym days.

7. I have no intentions of letting my Endocrinologist know i'm blasting and wont be seeing him for 2+ mos post cycle because he is a prude and will cease prescribing me TRT if my #'s are out of wack

QUESTIONS:

1. Do you recommend taking the Cabergoline and Arimidex (both .25mg doses) on the same day? (ie: Mon & Fri nights)

2. Any interactions with staying ON Lipitor during cycle? (I'm aware of potential elevated liver enzymes). Am taking milk thistle, etc

3. I have HCG on hand that was prescribed by a different endo, and it helped with occasional use when my testes would atrophy. If HCG were to be incorporated within this cycle, would it be during the last 2-3 wks of cycle? And I realize this would be more relevant for non TRT related cycles.

4. When my 12-14 wk "blast" ends, conventional advice would be to simply resume the coasting dose of 75mg/wk but my common sense starts to kick in here. NON TRT users wait 2+ wks for the longer acting esters of Deca to clear their system prior to starting their Clomid/Nolvadex/Arimidex PCT but its interesting that those on TRT don't have to? This makes little sense because the longer acting esters from the 19-Nor would be still converting into progesterone and the elevated doses of T. Cypionate will continue to aromatize into Estrogen - so wouldn't it make sense to go on a 4-6 week cruise on an AI (arimidex) and dopamine agonist/anti progestin (Cabergoline) to offset any lingering progestin/estrogen so that the 75mg T. Cypionate can resume without all this progestin/estrogen in the mix? Again, I'm not going on PCT to help my body recover and regain endogenous LH/FSH levels, in as much as i'm trying to counter the aromatization of both the nandrolone and test esters.

Please be kind - lol

Thank you so much!
 
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DylanGemelli

Founding Member
Super Moderator
Ok just wanted to give a complete history. Now keep in mind, my questions below are going to seem short and uninformative so if you have any general questions concerning my stats/history/reasons for doing this etc , it'll probably be answered in the novel above.

1. I've been on TRT for 8+ years. 75mgs T. Cypionate - Total Test Avg 650ng/dl and Total Free Test Avg 170pg/nl (above normal )

2. Am about to run a 12-14wk cycle of T. Cypionate 250 - 300mg/wk and Nandrolone Decanoate 250 - 300mg/wk with the hopes of adding size and reducing joint pain (I'm 48)

3. Ancillaries will be Dostinex .25mg twice a week and Arimidex .25mg twice a week

4. I have Nolvadex on "Standby" - 20mg tabs but not taking them with a 19-Nor

4. My bf is around 15-17% as per your opinion of my photograph (Aside from a little belly fat, I'm lookin ok)

5. My Cholesterol has been elevated but taking Atorvastatin (Lipitor 20mg/day). Cholesterol is now @156, HDL 46, LDL 86

6. I'm cleaning up my diet (lower fat, lower carbs, increasing protein, L-Glutamine, Juicing, wheat grass, lots of supps etc) and incorporating Cardio for about 30 min at the end of my workouts and on my off gym days.

7. I have no intentions of letting my Endocrinologist know i'm blasting and wont be seeing him for 2+ mos post cycle because he is a prude and will cease prescribing me TRT if my #'s are out of wack

QUESTIONS:

1. Do you recommend taking the Cabergoline and Arimidex (both .25mg doses) on the same day? (ie: Mon & Fri nights)

2. Any interactions with staying ON Lipitor during cycle? (I'm aware of potential elevated liver enzymes). Am taking milk thistle, etc

3. I have HCG on hand that was prescribed by a different endo, and it helped with occasional use when my testes would atrophy. If HCG were to be incorporated within this cycle, would it be during the last 2-3 wks of cycle? And I realize this would be more relevant for non TRT related cycles.

4. When my 12-14 wk "blast" ends, conventional advice would be to simply resume the coasting dose of 75mg/wk but my common sense starts to kick in here. NON TRT users wait 2+ wks for the longer acting esters of Deca to clear their system prior to starting their Clomid/Nolvadex/Arimidex PCT but its interesting that those on TRT don't have to? This makes little sense because the longer acting esters from the 19-Nor would be still converting into progesterone and the elevated doses of T. Cypionate will continue to aromatize into Estrogen - so wouldn't it make sense to go on a 4-6 week cruise on an AI (arimidex) and dopamine agonist/anti progestin (Cabergoline) to offset any lingering progestin/estrogen so that the 75mg T. Cypionate can resume without all this progestin/estrogen in the mix? Again, I'm not going on PCT to help my body recover and regain endogenous LH/FSH levels, in as much as i'm trying to counter the aromatization of both the nandrolone and test esters.

Please be kind - lol

Thank you so much!

1. caber is every 3 days and arimidex is every other day... if they ever fall on the same day then its completely fine to take them on the same day...

2. why are you using it?

3. there's no need for it here...

4. there's no problem doing that but you dont have to either... thats up to you on what you want to do... does it make more sense? well thats debatable bro... you do whatever makes you more comfortable... it wont hurt you to do that but its not necessary either...
 

boimoit

New member
Member
Hey Dylan

In response to your question, I'm on Atorvastatin (Lipitor)

I've always (and I mean since I was a child) had cholesterol levels in the 180 - 240 area with HDL between 48-54 and LDL in the 150-170 area and Triglycerides around 85. My cholesterol/HDLC ratios are always around 4-5. So my endocrinologist recommended, and my cardiologist started me on Atorvastatin 20mg and within 3 weeks my Total Cholesterol dropped to 156, my HDL cholesterol also decreased to 46, Triglycerides INCREASED to 112 and LDL cholesterol decreased to 86 (all smack in the middle of normal valuations).

As an aside to that, I have this issue of VERY poor appetite.

I was researching through many of your SARMS youtube videos and found that MK-667 had ghrelin enhancing attributes leading to increased appetite. I have yet to experiment with SARMS but am interested in taking the plunge.

My question:

1. After researching, I came across MK-677, and although "technically" it isn't a SARM, I guess it's just included in with the group. Can I take 25mg/day along side my T. Cypionate/Nandrolone Decanoate (250-300mg/ml of each weekly) to assist in stimulating my appetite while "ON" this blast cycle?

2. You mentioned "SARMS Duo's" and I looked into LGD-4033's ability to also increase appetite as well. So I'm going to assume that the synergy between MK-677 and LGD-4033 should be my 1-2 punch to stimulate my appetite?

3. Does LGD-4033's mechanism of action involve ghrelin release like MK-677 provides or does it work on a different pathway (ie: by reducing levels of the satiety hormone Leptin?)

4. Do you recommend I try MK-677 first for say 1-2 months and see what I experience, prior to the addition of LGD-4033?

5. I realize MK-677 must be ran for an entire 12 months straight. Does there need to be any "time off" taking MK-677?

6. I researched that LGD-4033 is a SARM that needs to be cycled for about 12 weeks then followed by PCT (for those that aren't on Testosterone Replacement Therapy), as it can cause some suppression. Being that I'm on TRT (75mg/wk T. Cypionate), can LGD-4033 be cycled for 12 wks alongside my TRT dose then upon completion of the LGD-4033 dosing, I just continue cruising?

Again, keeping in mind that my purpose for taking MK-677 and possibly stacking it with LGD-4033 is for the synergistic effect on INCREASING appetite. Any other benefits received, such as strength gains etc - to me - are just an added perk (whether on T. Cypionate/Nandrolone Decanoate or when cruising on my TRT dose)

7. Are there any discounts or specials going on if I were to order multiple vials from SARMSX at once?

Thank you for the assist brother, and I thoroughly enjoy your videos and all the knowledge you possess and share with everyone.


Thank you Dylan
 
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