Off-cycle assistant

[Gixxer]

I've been off cycle now for 10 weeks and will start my second cycle the beginning of July.

Just a recap, I ran Test C/Deca 500/350 for 12 weeks.
I made good gains and strength.. I also do a bod pod which measures muscle mass, fat, weight etc..
I added 20 lbs of muscle during cycle but 4 weeks after cycle I lost 8lbs and 6 weeks later (today's date 6/14/17) I lost another 5lbs , for a total of 13lbs of muscle lost, and the real shifty part I gained 2% BF... WTF!

My question is very simple, how to maintain muscle mass while off cycle?
My diet and training are still good, calories have decreased because I'm trying to get lean for the summer, which is already here!

While on cycle I was eating 4,500cals of clean lean meats, carbs and fats. I already broke it down before, but here it is again. 300 pro 600 carbs 110 fats , currently 280 pro 300 carbs 70 fats = 3,200cals
Also I'm on TRT, so I don't use a PCT.. I've had blood twice since my cycle. Test levels and estrogen are perfect, I don't remember the exact numbers but Test was 800 and e2 around 36.. also my overall blood work was normal, nothing off the charts.

I know a few members talk about cortisol being "gains killer" after cycle and to take GW.. but I'm just wondering how to keep my muscle I just busted my ass for after cycle without running more gear or taking sarms. I could be wrong but I thought the biggest factor was because our testosterone levels drop dramatically after cycle, but with being on TRT my levels are still high.

The only thing I can think of that would contribute to muscle lost, is maybe I'm overtraining?
Although my workout routine is still the same, I still try to keep the same intensity up just with lower weights. Another factor is maybe I'm not eating enough? Maybe I dropped to many calories for my body and need to increase them?

Sorry for the super long post... I am just looking for some advice on how to maintain most of my gains after cycle, I know we can't keep 100% of what we just put on..but as I will be starting another cycle soon and don't really like this roller coaster of emotions losing everything I worked very hard for!

 

[ironlifter36]

I am by no means a vet or nor do I consider myself knowledgeable on AAS. I am still learning so keep that in mind.

Probably not a good idea to go into a cut to "lean" down following a cycle. At best, go into a maintenance phase (calories) and let your body acclimate to the new weight/muscle. Keep the intensity (load) the same if at all possible, however a little roll back in strength is expected. You mentioned lower weights? I would keep the weights heavy. Also, possibly consider bridging with a Sarm or two.

Personally, I don't care about how much I can gain on cycle, I am only concerned with what I can keep. When I set my goal, it's based on how much LBM I want to net all said and done 3 months later back on TRT. If you gained 7lbs of actual LBM all said and done, that's not bad IMO considering it would take an intermediate lifter at least a year to do so. If not longer.

I am sure some the vets will share their thoughts.

 

[RickRock]

Well bro, glycogen retention and water are retained at a much higher rate inside the muscle cells when on superphsiological doses, so it's normal to drop some temporary weight. However if you are on trt and losing gains like that, it's gotta be diet and training related more than anything. Try not to cut too many calories off cycle. That will help. I'd do my cut on cycle. Also make sure you are giving yourself adequate recovery after workouts. I don't know your routine but you should be killing it and letting your body recover enough before hitting those muscle groups again

 

[Gixxer]

I am by no means a vet or nor do I consider myself knowledgeable on AAS. I am still learning so keep that in mind.

Probably not a good idea to go into a cut to "lean" down following a cycle. At best, go into a maintenance phase (calories) and let your body acclimate to the new weight/muscle. Keep the intensity (load) the same if at all possible, however a little roll back in strength is expected. You mentioned lower weights? I would keep the weights heavy. Also, possibly consider bridging with a Sarm or two.

Personally, I don't care about how much I can gain on cycle, I am only concerned with what I can keep. When I set my goal, it's based on how much LBM I want to net all said and done 3 months later back on TRT. If you gained 7lbs of actual LBM all said and done, that's not bad IMO considering it would take an intermediate lifter at least a year to do so. If not longer.

I am sure some the vets will share their thoughts.

That's probably a good idea. I've read something similar to keeping calories close to maintenance because of the new added muscle will need it to keep. And I agree with you as well, I don't care how much I gain oncycle , it's what I keep afterwards.

I try to keep the weight the same off cycle but it's heavy AF.. before I was squatting 405 at sets for reps of 10, now I can't even do 1 rep lol.. I stick with 315 for reps now. So strength dropped and it's hard to keep the weight as on cycle, obviously I won't be able to go round for round like when I was on, but I try to kill it while off cycle at the gym.

Great information bud, I appreciate it. You mentioned sarms, I was thinking LGD and GW for off cycle?

 

[ironlifter36]

As far as the Sarms, probably can't go wrong with any of them. I am trying out MK2866 right now. It was buy 2 get 1 free, each bottle when dosed properly will last 2 months, so I ended up with a 6 months supply. Perfect for 2 separate 3 month bridges. IMO you get the best bang for your buck with MK. If you have the funds, you could always throw in another one as well.

 

[Gixxer]

Well bro, glycogen retention and water are retained at a much higher rate inside the muscle cells when on superphsiological doses, so it's normal to drop some temporary weight. However if you are on trt and losing gains like that, it's gotta be diet and training related more than anything. Try not to cut too many calories off cycle. That will help. I'd do my cut on cycle. Also make sure you are giving yourself adequate recovery after workouts. I don't know your routine but you should be killing it and letting your body recover enough before hitting those muscle groups again

I understand the lost of some water weight retention, I'm totally fine with that. The fact I keep losing it, makes it very frustrating. I was thinking it might be training/diet as well.. My diet is super easy. I eat the same thing 5x a week M-F and the weekends I eat whatever but stay within my macros. Training is the same cycle on/off
Breakfast:
4 whole eggs , 1 cup egg whites and 4 slices of wheat bread
Snacks: 10oz white rice , 12 oz chicken breast
Lunch: 15 oz potatoes , 9oz chicken breast
Dinner: 8oz ground turkey, 2 flour tortillas with spring mix and Greek yogurt
Late snack: 1 medium banana, protein bar
Sometimes I eat chicken instead of ground turkey at dinner, but basically it's around 3,500 cals 300 pro 350-400 carbs and 70-80 fats. And on weekends I try to hit the same amount of calories, just eat different stuff like salmon, steak , oats , fruits, and of course pastrys lol. But I track everything.

Training is pretty much heavy compound movements with high volume isolation movements.
3-4 sets for 6-10 reps on heavy movements and 4-5 sets of 30,20,20,15 reps for volume. Typically I train 2 on and 1 off, but on cycle sometimes I would train 4 or 5 days in a row. And off cycle , sometimes I will go 3 on 1 off.

Since I'm technically cutting and going to start my next cycle, should I continue to cut while on cycle like you mentioned?
I would love to maintain mass, if not increase some during cycle but really lean out, is that a smart choice?

 

[DylanGemelli]

which sarm or sarms you use off cycle depends on your goals... for you, and correct me if im wrong, your main concern is maintaining and possibly adding to muscle gain, correct?

 

[Gixxer]

As far as the Sarms, probably can't go wrong with any of them. I am trying out MK2866 right now. It was buy 2 get 1 free, each bottle when dosed properly will last 2 months, so I ended up with a 6 months supply. Perfect for 2 separate 3 month bridges. IMO you get the best bang for your buck with MK. If you have the funds, you could always throw in another one as well.

I've heard great things about MK2866, I will definitely check that one out for my next bridge.

 

[Gixxer]

which sarm or sarms you use off cycle depends on your goals... for you, and correct me if im wrong, your main concern is maintaining and possibly adding to muscle gain, correct?

Correct, adding mass on cycle and keeping as much as possible off cycle.

 

[DylanGemelli]

Correct, adding mass on cycle and keeping as much as possible off cycle.

personally, i would go with lgd and s4... thats the best duo you could run... thats always my go to stack especially in this scenario

 

[Gixxer]

Thanks brotha.. I definitely will get some for my next bridge. In a perfect world, I'd be able to keep all my gains , but I know this is unrealistic, just trying to figure out how to meditate muscle lost while off cycle. Which is a bitch

I can't wait to start my next cycle and continue to grow!

 

[DylanGemelli]

Thanks brotha.. I definitely will get some for my next bridge. In a perfect world, I'd be able to keep all my gains , but I know this is unrealistic, just trying to figure out how to meditate muscle lost while off cycle. Which is a bitch

I can't wait to start my next cycle and continue to grow!

absolutely bro... listen, i wont ever blow smoke up your ass and tell you that its possible to keep 100% of your gains after a cycle or i would be a fucking fool, but i can tell you this, will FULL confidence... you can keep a good 80% and sometimes more if you run the proper pct and run a good bridge and good, clean doses of everything... when you limit side effects, it allows you to retain more of what you are doing... thats why often times, less is actually more