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Is Caber Needed For Low Dose Deca / any 19nor?

ThePineal

Member
Member
hi guys, hope you can help me a quick question. In short, I want to do my 2nd cycle of Deca, this time at 250mg/week, along with Sustanon 250mg/week.

The last time I did a Deca cycle of 200mg/week, I was taking Caber 0.5mg E3D - but about 5 weeks in, got blood works, and my Prolactin was way too low (about 20mlU/L on a scale of 86.00-324.00mlU/L). More details here https://www.isarms.com/forums/stero...ease-help!-e2-amp-prolactin-issues-27443.html

I'm currently at 16% bf, on a cutting cycle to get down to 10% - but my joints and tendons have started acting up again (shoulder, wrists, knees, and back - fuckin sucks!).

SOOO - I'm really looking for the therapeutic benefits. In fact, my research found that there are a lot of people who use Deca/NPP alongside TRT.

there's not much info on the exact protocol, and whether they're using Caber.

The most I'm looking at pinning per week is 250mg, minimum 125mg. I guess it 'might' be like part of a blast and cruise, 1:1 ratio of T.

Questions:
  1. Although I have Caber on hand just in case - do I actually need to be taking Caber on these doses?
  2. Do I need to increase my Aromasin from 12.5mg E3D when adding Deca at these doses?
  3. Do you know if it's possible to do 125mg/week Deca all year around alongside TRT of the same 125mg/week?

any help would be much appreciated, thanks in advance.
 

RickRock

Community Leader
VIP Moderator
It all depends on the individual. Just like estrogen, people have different levels of sensitivity to prolactin. Some will need a low dose even with low levels of nandrlone, just like some need a low dose of ai with their trt. Everyone is different
 

ThePineal

Member
Member
It all depends on the individual. Just like estrogen, people have different levels of sensitivity to prolactin. Some will need a low dose even with low levels of nandrlone, just like some need a low dose of ai with their trt. Everyone is different

so in other words, you're saying that I should start with the protocol, and then get blood works again - correct?

let's say that I decided to go with 250mg Deca without Caber...when would be the ideal timing to get the blood works to check whether the Deca is affecting my Prolactin?

Actually, same question for if I was to do 125mg Deca along with my TRT 125mg...at how many weeks in would be ideal to get blood works?
 

DylanGemelli

Founding Member
Super Moderator
i would not run it without caber at 250 but you should be fine at 150.. i would get it done 6-8 weeks in
 

ThePineal

Member
Member
.25 mg every 3 days shouldbe plenty

awesome, thanks! I'm gonna get some blood work done next week, then add 125mg Deca to my TRT for 2 months, then do a blast of 250mg both T and Deca for 3-4 months, then drop the Deca for a few months, back to 125mg T cruise.
 
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DylanGemelli

Founding Member
Super Moderator
heres an article on it...

Vitamin B6 is a surprisingly effective prolactin inhibitor that is extremely cheap and safe: One human study showed a single 300mg dosage of B6 exerts ***8216;a hypothalamic dopaminergic effect***8217; which causes a ***8216;significant decrease of plasma prolactin***8217;(1); Another found that 300mg of B6 taken twice a day by 10 normal women lowered prolactin levels and slightly but significantly raised growth hormone levels. The authors concluded: ***8216;The effect of vitamin B6 is likely to be mediated by dopaminergic receptors at hypothalamic level***8217;(2); Another study found B6 to significantly reduce ***8216;opioids-induced hyperprolactinemia***8217;(3); This study on men found that ***8216;Pyridoxine (B6) suppresses the rise in prolactin and increases the rise in growth hormone induced by exercise***8217;(4); And a study on male rats found that, ***8216;Pyridoxine hydrochloride significantly suppressed the chlorpromazine-induced prolactin rise (p less than 0.01). However, the suppression was significantly less than that produced by bromocriptine (p less than 0.01)***8217;(5). [Note: The last study shows B6 to be less effective than Bromocriptine as a prolactin inhibitor but, stacked with vitamin e and SAM-e, along with some of the secondary prolactin inhibitors I list at the bottom of the page, effects comparable to bromocriprine can be achieved.] The vast majority of people receive the very low RDA for vitamin b6 (2mg) from their diets so this isn***8217;t an issue of correcting a deficiency. It appears, instead, that extra vitamin B6, i.e. around 600mg spread throughout the day, acts in a drug like manner to lower prolactin levels. It***8217;s important to realize, however, that the RDA for B6 is set extremely low and many people benefit from getting considerably more than 2mg per day of this vitamin. Vitamin B6 in high doses has been shown in studies to: - Reduce high blood pressure. - Improve mood and combat depression - Lower blood sugar levels in diabetics - Act as an effective calcium channel blocker A very high dose of B6 may act as a prolactin inhibitor in certain people by correcting a functional deficiency of this vitamin that can occur. Inflammation in the body can create a greater demand for B6 so bodybuilders and athletes may require more of this vitamin. Pyrolurics, according to Dr. Carl Pfeiffer and Dr. Abram Hoffer, have an increased need for zinc and B6. People suffering from this illness create abnormally high levels of chemicals called kryptopyrroles, which bind to zinc and B6 in the body, creating deficiencies in both. The standard treatment for pyroluria is high dose zinc and B6 supplementation, typically 50-150 mg and 250-1500 mg respectively (way above the RDA for both).

Side effects: High doses of B6 taken for many months can cause nerve problems such as tingling in the fingers and numbness in the toes (peripheral neuropathy); B6 can also worsen sleep quality in some people and cause vivid dreams. Fortunately, these problems completely resolve once B6 supplementation is stopped and, since it is water soluble, this won***8217;t take too long.

Ways around these side effects: One way to avoid the ***8216;finger tingling***8217; that high dose B6 can cause is to take the activated form of B6 called Pyridoxal-5-Phosphate (P5P) - the activated form of B6 does not cause these nerve issues. In fact, the reason that high dose B6 causes nerve problems is that the body can***8217;t always process very high B6 doses properly and this creates a deficiency of the active form of B6, P5P.

Recommended dosage: To lower prolactin levels I would recommend you take 50 to 200mg of P5P a day, in divided doses. If you want to take regular B6, which as I've mentioned can sometimes cause minor side effects, take 300 to 1000 mg per day in divided doses. Read the label before you buy B6 because the Pyridoxine Hydrochloride type of B6 (in most supplements) has been shown to be a prolactin inhibitor but Pyridoxal hydrochloride has been shown to be ineffective at lowering prolactin (6) ***8211; make sure you buy the right type!
 

ThePineal

Member
Member
UPDATE: Since mid-December 2017 (3.5 months) I've been pinning Deca 125mg/week + Sustanon 125/week, Aromasin 12.5mg E3D - no Caber.

Feeling fantastic, my shoulder pain has significantly reduced from the Deca. Been dropping BF% and gaining some mass, though nothing insane because my focus is mainly getting lean and chiseled. What's killing me is that I've had a few family holidays, and had a few weeks off working out.

Now aiming to get from around 15% BF down below 10% - then switch to bulking, where I'll likely do 250mg/week of both Deca and T, and do that for 3-4 months.
 

cbbram

Community Leader
VIP Moderator
You should ALWAYS have Caber on hand until you know if you're prolactin sensitive or not and I would still have it regardless because every cycle is different. You wouldn't run Test without an AI would you?
 

DylanGemelli

Founding Member
Super Moderator
i definitely wouldnt use it without having it on hand at all but if you are only using 125 mg week, you should be just fine... if anything just have b6 on hand but at that dose, more than likely its not needed...
 

ThePineal

Member
Member
You should ALWAYS have Caber on hand until you know if you're prolactin sensitive or not and I would still have it regardless because every cycle is different. You wouldn't run Test without an AI would you?

yup, I have Caber on hand =)

buying 2 more bottles in preparation for a cycle @ 250mg/week.
 
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