How Hard Can I Diet With Test

[ThatAussieGuy]

Hey all,

My first time cutting with AAS. I'm running 500-600 test and just wondering how much the test will protect my gains or in other words how hard can i diet before I start sacrificing muscle?

Stats are 103kg or 230ish lb, 15% body fat by DEXA. The scan tells me I need to lose 6kg or 13-14lb of fat tissue to get to 10% then I will reasess from there.

At the moment I have cut about 600cals leaving me at about 3800-3900. I have in the past run as low as 2500cals on carb cycling with 3xcardio pw and still been "content" food wise but I was only about 85kg back then and I still lost some muscle mass at those cals. Will I lose muscle if I go that low on test at my current stats?

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[ThatAussieGuy]

Just to add most of that cut has come from carbs -450g to about 300 and a little bit from fats.

Current macros would be 350P/300C/120F therebouts

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[SpikedEggnog]

its impossible to say how much of your muscle will be preserved. it depends on your body type and training methods. but the TEST will definitely help to preserve muscle in a deficit.

i am 235 lbs about 12% BF and i eat less cals then you and dont lose muscle mass, so i think you may be overeating slightly. my maintenance is around 3k-3300. you are eating 3800-3900. that is not a deficit, especially at 15% BF. if i was trying to Cut up, this is what I would do:

350g prot - 1400 cals
250g carb - 1000 cals
75g fats - 675 cals

total - 3075 cals

2500 is too low of a deficit.

I would also not run TEST that high of mg for a Cut. running 600mg test is a major bulking dose and can bring extra water retention, gyno, etc. especially at higher BF%. 150-250 is more of a cutting dose.

i would combine a small dose of TEST with something else, like Winstrol, Cardarine, and Ostarine to do a sick Cut. keep my cals around 3k as above. Do more cardio, for me is swimming, jump rope, etc. Do faster paced workouts, less rest, more supersets, etc.

 

[ThatAussieGuy]

Thanks man this is a huge help. I am still trying to feel around for my new maintenance levels in this early stage so good to know I can just bump down to 3000 without messing around too much.

Yeah I plan to back off the test and add some var and cardarine shortly once I'm down a few lb fat, i just didn't want to cut my test dose too quickly coz I'm a scaredy cat lol

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[SpikedEggnog]

Thanks man this is a huge help. I am still trying to feel around for my new maintenance levels in this early stage so good to know I can just bump down to 3000 without messing around too much.

Yeah I plan to back off the test and add some var and cardarine shortly once I'm down a few lb fat, i just didn't want to cut my test dose too quickly coz I'm a scaredy cat lol

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3k would be my cutting number BUT this is only if you are doing intense workouts AND cardio. i personally would rather keep cals a bit higher and do a tad more cardio then cut too low..

dont worry about dropping the dose, old school bodybuilders did that all the time to cut. an old school cycle would be something like 500-600mg test w/ deca then at 12 wks they drop TEST down to 150-250 and add in a cutting compound, change diet (caloric deficit), and Up cardio. cutting with aas is largely dependent on compounds and dosages used, DIET, and training/cardio. if you cut your TEST down but still eat sufficient cals and workout hard, the only thing you will lose is probably some water weight..

and watch out with the VAR, i have heard stories of bad cramping/muscle pumps. Cardarine is perfect for cutting though. ive never tried Var but i never will from what i heard and the price of it, id rather go with PRIMO if im gonna buy expensive stuff. otherwise go with Winny, cardarine, and Ostarine stacked.

 

[ThatAussieGuy]

Awesome man thanks so much.

That old school approach is pretty much exactly what I wanted to do. I have bulked and added a 25lb lean muscle but unfortunately last few weeks I ate too hard trying to get more gains and also put on some fat.

I read in a few other places (urgh thank God no more Meso) that 500 is a good cutting dose so good to hear I can save some test lol.

Everything else will be set. For once after a lot od trial and error I think this will finally come together. I have missed my morning runs by the river, will be interesting to see how I go at this new size lol. I bet it adds minutes to my per km time lol.

I have cardarine, ostarine, var and mast prop at my disposal..obv the mast will only be used if I get right down. Def the cardarine and will toss up between the var and osta.

Thanks Eggnog!!!

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[SpikedEggnog]

Awesome man thanks so much.

That old school approach is pretty much exactly what I wanted to do. I have bulked and added a 25lb lean muscle but unfortunately last few weeks I ate too hard trying to get more gains and also put on some fat.

I read in a few other places (urgh thank God no more Meso) that 500 is a good cutting dose so good to hear I can save some test lol.

Everything else will be set. For once after a lot od trial and error I think this will finally come together. I have missed my morning runs by the river, will be interesting to see how I go at this new size lol. I bet it adds minutes to my per km time lol.

I have cardarine, ostarine, var and mast prop at my disposal..obv the mast will only be used if I get right down. Def the cardarine and will toss up between the var and osta.

Thanks Eggnog!!!

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wow 25lbs, thats crazy man good job. now are you gonna PCT or what is your plan exactly? is your cycle over? are you on TRT?

no problem. Drb knows all about the old school stuff. his son Jake is here too. they can tell you anything you want to know about old school. i am old school as well..

yeah 500 is definitely unnecessary imo. i added mass on 100-200 test. and you can also ask Dylan about his low dose cycle. you may end up actually gaining muscle while you cut..in the future i will cut on 150-250 test and probably 150 deca as well. deca is just so sick..

i wouldn't risk the Var with jogging a lot. but if you insist supplement Taurine, at least 5g.

 

[ThatAussieGuy]

I planned an 18 week cycle half bulk half cut. I know it's long. I'm 36. At the end will do a full PCT and see where I end up numbers wise. I know recovery will be be a bit of a bitch but I'll slog it out.

I like to lift hard and do a lot.of volume so I was hoping I might still gain a bit in a deficit. I still gained a few lb in deficit on osta.

I would prob do morning cardio first before my var dose and see how that goes, hopefully avoid the pumps issue. I already shelled out for it but I guess I couls resell it at local prices and make a tidy profit lol


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[ThatAussieGuy]

I got HCGenerate for PCT so everything will be A-OK I'm sure.

LOL!!

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[RickRock]

Spikedeggnog gave you some good numbers to go by to start. He is right that your original numbers are way too high for cutting.

The goal would be to go for 1-2 lbs per week of fat loss which is a good rate.

Adding in sarms GW and SR9009 are both something I highly recommend for enhancing your fat loss as well.

 

[ThatAussieGuy]

Awesome, thanks Rick.I going to back off cals slowly coz that's always what I've been told and was a bit hesitant to go too fast but I will just drop to 3K from next week and halve my test dose.

Really like this forum!!!

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[Jake]

Hey all,

My first time cutting with AAS. I'm running 500-600 test and just wondering how much the test will protect my gains or in other words how hard can i diet before I start sacrificing muscle?

Stats are 103kg or 230ish lb, 15% body fat by DEXA. The scan tells me I need to lose 6kg or 13-14lb of fat tissue to get to 10% then I will reasess from there.

At the moment I have cut about 600cals leaving me at about 3800-3900. I have in the past run as low as 2500cals on carb cycling with 3xcardio pw and still been "content" food wise but I was only about 85kg back then and I still lost some muscle mass at those cals. Will I lose muscle if I go that low on test at my current stats?

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Actually if you want to cut old school you cycle for 12 weeks and then nothing but test at 200-400mg, and then add winny and go for4 weeks. You cut your cals to under 3000, and if you really wan tto go old school diet wise then you up your protein to 2 grams per pound, and carbs at 100 or less. Also if you want to get supercut then read up on vince gironda. Nothing but beef and eggs for 8 weeks.

 

[TX TERROR]

Well you can go pretty damn low. 2500 is certainly not too low. Just depends on you're protein intake. Protein is wha will preserve muscle. As Jake just stated 2 grams per lb of body weight. And slash you're carbs. I carb cycle too on top of that. works great.

people don't know what hell is till they have 20 carbs a day lol. The way I would cycle it would be something like this...

Sunday 150g carbs - leg day
Monday 125g carbs - back day
Tuesday 90g carbs arms
Wednesday 70g carbs shoulders
Thursday 50g carbs chest
Friday 50g carbs arms
Saturday 25g carbs rest

Just listing as an example doesn't have to be that.

You want to make sure you don't just go balls to the wall and burn you're self out either. Its a gradual thing that takes a slow and steady pace.
I think getting burned out is what defeats most people on a diet. I have seen a lot of people go through it. Helped diet some people competing. Hell you saw my stuff at evo. The most common struggle is just running out of gas towards the end of the race.

Before people just tell you to eat this and that too make sure you're body is equipped with what you need to accommodate it. Prebotics, probiotics, things like that. Hell maybe even Mk-677 I am waiting to experiment with that still. I'm supposed to log it here. I struggled a lot with my sleep patterns in the peak of my cut.
I was running a lot more gear than you but I would have ridiculous sleep schedule. I would wake up craving wierd stuff.

You are fighting you're body's natural instinct so it will play tricks on you.

Couple tips too, cut you're dairy out. drop all dairy. also in the mornings or whenever you have you're shake, you can get this stuff called bob's redmill potato starch. Add a couple servings to you're shake and it will hold the hunger down a little better. Its like 8g of carbs per serving or something small like that. FYI I know I mentioned drop dairy but if you have some wicked craving you just can not get rid of, I have found that cool whip believe it or not is the best thing to go with for me. Its virtually nothing. Especially if you mix it with whey and then freeze it.

 

[ThatAussieGuy]

Thanks Jake and TX that's awesome info.

TX I've done carb cycling before, I would do 100/150/300 and repeat. Those are some very low carb values but manageble I think. It's summer here so great time for salads with grilled chicken or kangaroo. I will prob cut diet to 3000 as has been suggested then start to carb cycle when that progress stalls.

Thoughts on fruit while cutting? Summer citrus fruit and stonefruit here is so good. As long as not excessive good to go?

And is winny preferable to var as a cutting compound?

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[SpikedEggnog]

Actually if you want to cut old school you cycle for 12 weeks and then nothing but test at 200-400mg, and then add winny and go for4 weeks. You cut your cals to under 3000, and if you really wan tto go old school diet wise then you up your protein to 2 grams per pound, and carbs at 100 or less. Also if you want to get supercut then read up on vince gironda. Nothing but beef and eggs for 8 weeks.

he isnt ready for the beef and eggs diet yet, that is Hardcore

 

[SpikedEggnog]

Thanks Jake and TX that's awesome info.

TX I've done carb cycling before, I would do 100/150/300 and repeat. Those are some very low carb values but manageble I think. It's summer here so great time for salads with grilled chicken or kangaroo. I will prob cut diet to 3000 as has been suggested then start to carb cycle when that progress stalls.

Thoughts on fruit while cutting? Summer citrus fruit and stonefruit here is so good. As long as not excessive good to go?

And is winny preferable to var as a cutting compound?

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you can pretty eat anything you want when cutting. im not talking about trash foods of course... but the only thing is how low do you want to cut/ how drastic of a cut do you want. if you are just looking to tighten up and lose a bit of BF% i wouldn't worry too much about it. but if you are trying to Prep for a contest and get down to 6% BF or something then i would be very strict about what i ate. i eat fruit all the time, its full of fiber and vitamins and its a source of quick carbs.

and like jake said, the most cut you can ever get is on Steak and Eggs diet, which is similar to the all Tuna diet. i did something similar at one point and it will shred you up faster/better then anything else..its very tough though mentally be aware..

 

[TX TERROR]

Thanks Jake and TX that's awesome info.

TX I've done carb cycling before, I would do 100/150/300 and repeat. Those are some very low carb values but manageble I think. It's summer here so great time for salads with grilled chicken or kangaroo. I will prob cut diet to 3000 as has been suggested then start to carb cycle when that progress stalls.

Thoughts on fruit while cutting? Summer citrus fruit and stonefruit here is so good. As long as not excessive good to go?

And is winny preferable to var as a cutting compound?

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Well its just gonna come down to carbs and sugars really. Fruit will have fiber as well. Just depends on you're allowence for carbs during the day. That's how I look at it personally.

I go rasberries and that's about it.

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[ThatAussieGuy]

Awesome guys!!!

I think I've got a good plan laid out for me now, have plenty of info to steer me in the right direction.

I'm just looking for that nice healthy 10% look, it might be nice to get a bit lower but not competitive levels, I don't want to sacrifice too much lifestyle esp coming in to summer if I'm not competing. It's just beach body type stuff really. I think 215lb at 9-10% body fat will be a nice healthy fit look for me!! I haven't been that shredded since I was running half marathons a couple years back and back then my stature was very different.

 

[Jake]

he isnt ready for the beef and eggs diet yet, that is Hardcore

Beef and eggs fools you.You start out loving it.Then by week 3 you are dreaming about eating bread. If ever there was a "Maximum Definition Diet" this is it.

 

[ThatAussieGuy]

Haha, I was gonna say - I love beef and I love eggs. Sounds okay but I bet you get sick of it pretty easy.

Plus beef and eggs both cost a fortune down here