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Discontinuation of TRT (Post Cycle Therapy Advice for recovery)

RickRock

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TRT blood work done at 9am this morning.

I am considering starting PCT today, day 15 post last injection 125mg Sustanon.

In general, I have been fatigued and tired over the last couple of days and my strength has decreased in the gym. Lifts are probably down around 20% on average and generally feel a lot weaker.

Should I split the 50mg Clomid and take 25mg twice daily or just once daily?

Same question in relation to the Tamoxifen. Should I take 20mg twice daily or 40mg all at once?

I was thinking of taking Clomid / Tamoxifen together in one dose at midday every day for the duration of PCT to maintain consistency and stable levels.

Also taking Aromasin at the same time, but EOD at 12.5mg.

Then I will evaluate in 6 weeks time after a 2nd TRT blood panel.

Any advice from members that have previous experience, good knowledge on PCT is welcomed.

Cheers!
You are fine to take your Clomid and nolva doses all at once at wgatever time you want each day. They have a half life measured in days, so splitting doses is absolutely unnecessary
 

stomp88

New member
Member
Thanks for the response Rick.

I will just select a time and stick with that on a daily basis. Obviously same time for the Aromasin, but EOD.

In relation to diet, do you have any good advice whilst doing PCT? My Post Cycle is going to be considerably longer as I am discontinuing TRT.

In the future I am considering a cut and would like to maintain as much muscle as possible whilst dropping body fat and getting as lean as possible.
 

RickRock

Community Leader
VIP Moderator
Thanks for the response Rick.

I will just select a time and stick with that on a daily basis. Obviously same time for the Aromasin, but EOD.

In relation to diet, do you have any good advice whilst doing PCT? My Post Cycle is going to be considerably longer as I am discontinuing TRT.

In the future I am considering a cut and would like to maintain as much muscle as possible whilst dropping body fat and getting as lean as possible.
Just make sure you are at least at maintenance while recovering. The last thing you want is to be in a defecit during that crucial time
 

stomp88

New member
Member
Appreciate the info Rick, thanks bro!

I know recovery is the most important thing to consider at the moment.

Do you think you would be able to advise me and take a look at my diet once I get through the PCT phase and prep a 12 week cut?
 

stomp88

New member
Member
Hey Bro's,

Quick update on everything and how things are going at the moment.

Just received my Pre PCT blood work results and I have attached them here for you all to take a look at. There are quite a few 'red flags' on the panel and I would appreciate some feedback from the more senior, experienced members of the forum. (That's no disrepect to anyone that may not have any knowledge on this.)

Okay, the results on the panel attached are from Day 15 post last injection 125mg Sustanon.

I started PCT on Day 16 (mid-day)
Clomid 50mg
Tamoxifen 40mg
Aromasin 12.5mg (EOD)

I am now 6 days into PCT, taking meds religiously at mid-day on time daily. I have been feeling a little run down over the past week or so. Not had nowhere near the energy levels I had whilst on AAS, but that's expected. My skin is poor, breakouts of spots on my face, chest and shoulders and I generally look unwell and tired. Yesterday I looked like I had a little facial flushing.

I have been suffering with mild headcahes over the past couple of days too. No noticeable vision problems at the moment, but I have noticed my eyes are easily irritated and become dry at times.

Emotionally it's been up and down and at times I have noticed a little anxiety creep in. I feel quite sad and low at the moment and the least little thing seems to make me feel overwhelmed and I feel as though I want to cry. It's quite depressing tbh!

I've managed to find the motivation to train on a couple of occasions over the past week or so, but my lifts are down and it seems I have lost interest in the things I enjoy and life in general. My diet is also very hit and miss. I eat plenty of nutritious foods, but I can't seem to cut out the crap in between, and my mood isn't helped by my constant cravings for junk food and sugary things.

My Libido is pretty much non-existent, very occasional morning erections, but lack desire.

I have been weighing daily, first thing in the morning on empty, before doing anything else.

I have dropped approximately 5-6lbs in weight in the space of 7 days. This morning I weighed in at 185lbs.


I can't think of much more to add at this stage, but thought I'd share this with you. I haven't analytically broken down the results of my panel as I am looking for unbiased views. I'd like people to share their thoughts and tell me what they think. Any questions feel free to ask. Thanks!
 

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RickRock

Community Leader
VIP Moderator
I don't really see any red flags in your bloodwork, and nothing I'd stress about. I don't see anything that should be giving you symptoms. Your body may just be trying to adjust still to reach homeostasis
 

stomp88

New member
Member
Thanks for taking the time to have a look at the blood panel Rick.

I'm aware that there's nothing majorly striking that stands out, apart from Haemoglobin, Haematocrit and Red Cell Count being raised. Donating blood would be an option in this case. Last time I donated was approximately 4-5 months ago, so I could make an appointment to address that. How could this be further affected whilst on Clomid and Tamoxifen?

Kidney Function (Creatinine raised) and Cholesterol have also been identified as areas of concern. Liver values (CK) are raised and Prostate has been flagged up.

My skin is terrible at the moment. I never had issues like this prior to TRT. I wouldn't say it's acne, just an outbreak of spots in various areas. Is this a result of the PCT drugs or my own hormones kicking in?

Hoping to run a full 6 week PCT and repeat bloods, but with the inclusion of LH and FSH as I need to know if my HPTA is firing as it should be.

I can't wait to get off all these compounds to be honest! It's been a rollercoaster over the last 9 months and I'm just hoping and praying my body will fully recover. The only thing I would consider at that stage then would be the use of Aromasin run as a standalone drug to try and lower my estrogen, bring my free testosterone up and lower my SHBG a little.
 
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RickRock

Community Leader
VIP Moderator
Thanks for taking the time to have a look at the blood panel Rick.

I'm aware that there's nothing majorly striking that stands out, apart from Haemoglobin, Haematocrit and Red Cell Count being raised. Donating blood would be an option in this case. Last time I donated was approximately 4-5 months ago, so I could make an appointment to address that. How could this be further affected whilst on Clomid and Tamoxifen?

Kidney Function (Creatinine raised) and Cholesterol have also been identified as areas of concern. Liver values (CK) are raised and Prostate has been flagged up.

My skin is terrible at the moment. I never had issues like this prior to TRT. I wouldn't say it's acne, just an outbreak of spots in various areas. Is this a result of the PCT drugs or my own hormones kicking in?

Hoping to run a full 6 week PCT and repeat bloods, but with the inclusion of LH and FSH as I need to know if my HPTA is firing as it should be.

I can't wait to get off all these compounds to be honest! It's been a rollercoaster over the last 9 months and I'm just hoping and praying my body will fully recover. The only thing I would consider at that stage then would be the use of Aromasin run as a standalone drug to try and lower my estrogen, bring my free testosterone up and lower my SHBG a little.

As your body tries to reach homeostasis and adjusts hormone fluctuation will cause acne and outbreaks pretty often. That is normal until your body normalizes
 

stomp88

New member
Member
Okay bro's, bit of an update on PCT and how things are going.

12 days in on Clomid 50mg / Tamoxifen 40mg / Aromasin 12.5mg EOD.

Currently feel like an emotional wreck! Continuously feel irritable and snappy. I just feel like I could cry, even over trivial things. Depressed and agitated. 6-8 weeks of this is going to be absolute hell.

No tiredness or fatigue at this stage, but my sleeping pattern is broken. Just very restless and cranky. Energy levels feel okay at present.

Libido and sex drive is ZERO! I feel completely dead from the waist down, seriously! My testes are still small, no signs of improvement, stimulation etc.

Getting mild headaches, but nothing major. Heart palpitations have increased and kind of irregular too. Bit scary at times.

Skin is awful, spots on face, upper chest and shoulders. Quite sore too and seem to last for days.

Can anyone provide any advice or feedback on all of this. I feel terrible. First time I have ever done a PCT. Been on TRT for over 9 months.
 
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Billy Ray

New member
Member
Sorry to hear this mate

You know you need the pct, just have to stick it out. As pills taper you’ll feel better

I suppose you need a coping mechanism. I know at least 1 guy needed antidepressants to get through and over pct. you probably feel antisocial, work is tough. Personally I use some leave on days I’m in poor form and irritable

On the positives, pct is relatively short. You’re not suffering long term depression.

I’d like to reply better but typing on phone isn’t ideal. In short, look after yourself, change up your lifestyle in short term if needs be. Just keep chalking up the days until you’re done

I just started trt 2 months ago and potentially ending it and facing tough pct was a large negative but hopefully I can stay on
 

stomp88

New member
Member
Thanks for the support Billy.

It is a difficult period I'm going through at the moment. Definitely anti-social and no patience with anyone or anything.

I've had some dark days since starting PCT. To best describe it, I would say I feel 'shut off' from everything. My emotions are all over the place, can't think straight and feel like an empty shell.

I have no heart to train whatsoever, no motivation or desire to even lift any weights, which is very unlike me. It's very depressing and soul destroying. I've lost some size too, gained quite a bit of fat around my mid-section and down on the scales by at least 8 lbs now.

I hope TRT works out for you bro, but personally I'm glad I made the decision to discontinue treatment now rather than in a years time and regret it.
 
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Billy Ray

New member
Member
You’re experiencing the equivalent of a full on depression in everything you just described. The worries re physical changes are going to add to it

Just look fwd to Xmas, drugs out of system, certainly mood elevated from where you are now. Your mind could be highlighting things that aren’t as bad as they seem now. Perspective right now will be negative towards everything

Take some comfort in knowing the end is in sight
 

jmmdm2

Member
Member
This really hits home for me. I've had the same exact issues from the noticeable fat gain to the irritability and dark feelings... pretty much everything you said. I was on from early Feb to early Aug this year starting with a TRT dose followed by a weak cycle so I had to run the 8 week PCT. I won't lie, it sucked. Today is actually the first day I feel like I have some spring in my step and it's been almost a week since I discontinued the Clomid and Nolva. The endless comments about PCT all over the net helped but sometimes killed my outlook, it was like I'd read a horror story about PCT and then end up with the symptoms the next day. My mood does seem to be improving finally and I hope I'll be on the way to recovery in three more weeks. Losing size and having suck ass workouts is a huge killer for my motivation but I feel like tonight is going to go well at the gym. You'll make it through and it will get better. Good luck.
 

stomp88

New member
Member
Thanks again for the support guys,

This has been a really difficult period. At the end of week 3 PCT. Clomid 50mg, Tamoxifen 40mg, Aromasin 12.5mg EOD.


Time to start decreasing the dosage of Tamoxifen daily now to 20mg, been at 40mg for the last 3 weeks. Will continue the protocol as laid out in Dylan's post.

I have never felt this mentally vulnerable in all my life. I've been very emotional and at times I feel I could break down and cry. I've had this black cloud lingering over me whilst on PCT and it's given me some very dark and lonely days. It is something I have never experienced previously in my life before and I have suffered with depression in the past.

I've lost almost a stone now and it's evident I have lost some muscle and gained some fat around my mid-section. I have hardly trained in all honesty as I just haven't been able to find the motivation to do so. In the next few weeks I will be looking at returning to 4 training sessions per week to get back into things. My diet also needs improvement.

Mild headaches are still occurring and the acne is still there, but it's mainly a build up of clogged pores. Once I am done with PCT, I will run a low dose of Isotetrinoin to try and clear my skin up a little. I took Roaccutane in my early teens and it really helped my skin, so hopefully it will address my current problem. I really hope so anyway.

Also been using Alpecin shampoo for my hair and taking Biotin regularly. Too soon to tell if there has been any real improvement but I will continue on and see how things go.

Libido is still very poor, and testes are still small at this stage and showing no signs of improvement.


Will update again soon.
 
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stomp88

New member
Member
Good Afternoon bro's,

A new update and results of my second blood panel, taken exactly 6 weeks into PCT protocol.

I am a little late uploading this, but now at week 7 of 8 PCT.

In general, my skin has improved, feeling a little better but my energy levels have dropped and my sleep pattern is still broken. I had to take a break from training as mentally I was not in a good place.

Libido and sex drive are still rock bottom. My testes have gained a little size, but still not returned to what they used to be prior to starting TRT.

On analysis of the recent blood panel, LH and FSH were off the scale, so I know there are no issues with the Pituitary and the meds are doing their job. Testosterone has improved and currently sits a little higher than on my previous blood panel result prior to commencing TRT.

Cortisol is up, on the higher end of the scale, although it is within the 'normal' range. There are also a few other red flags that were identified, but I'd appreciate it if Dylan and some of the senior members of the forum could give their views on all of this.

Thanks in advance.

Recent blood panel result.
 

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RickRock

Community Leader
VIP Moderator
Where is your estradiol numbers? I'd be willing to bet your estrogen is low if you've been on Aromasin at 12.5mg EOD this whole time. I'd stop the Aromasin. All your test numbers are great, and your panel looks fine. SHBG and cortisol are at the high end of normal which could come down, but I'd be willing to bet your estrogen is tanked right now.
 

stomp88

New member
Member
Afternoon Rick, thanks for the reply.

Estrogen is on there bro, 17 Beta Oestradiol - 47.6 pmol/L on a scale of 0.00 - 191.99.

I have continued to take the Aromasin at 12.5mg EOD. I tend to get easily irritated and find I am very snappy at times, not sure if that is a result of dropping Estrogen too low or not.

Cortisol is on the high end and SHBG is up too.

What do you think about moving forward from here at this stage now? I was thinking of just continuing on 25mg Clomid for another couple of weeks and re-evaluate bloods in 6 weeks time.

Would like to hear Dylan's view on this too.
 

RickRock

Community Leader
VIP Moderator
Afternoon Rick, thanks for the reply.

Estrogen is on there bro, 17 Beta Oestradiol - 47.6 pmol/L on a scale of 0.00 - 191.99.

I have continued to take the Aromasin at 12.5mg EOD. I tend to get easily irritated and find I am very snappy at times, not sure if that is a result of dropping Estrogen too low or not.

Cortisol is on the high end and SHBG is up too.

What do you think about moving forward from here at this stage now? I was thinking of just continuing on 25mg Clomid for another couple of weeks and re-evaluate bloods in 6 weeks time.

Would like to hear Dylan's view on this too.

At this point I don't see you needing aromasIn. I would stop that, continue Clomid a couple weeks and retest in 6 weeks time. I agree with that
 

stomp88

New member
Member
At the moment I'm into week 8 of PCT, but still not feeling great. Do you think the Aromasin is affecting libido and sex drive?

I could run another four weeks of Clomid at 25mg per day if that would be beneficial at this stage?

It's not been a pleasant experience on all these meds, but since I have decreased dosage, my mental state has slightly improved.
 
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