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PCT? Restart?

dallenter

New member
Member
Hi Dylan,

One of your UK subscribers here!

I've got a slight problem on my hands - to cut a long story short, I've recently found out I have low testosterone. My levels are currently the equivalent of a man in his mid 80's.

UK measurements:
- Total Testosterone 13.00 nmol/L
- Free Testosterone 0.182 nmol/L
- Sex Hormone Binding Globulin 57.00 nmol/L
- Free Androgen Index 22.80

US measurements:
- Total Testosterone 370 ng/dl
- Free Testosterone 5.3 ng/dl
- Sex Hormone Binding Globulin 57.00 nmol/L
- Free Androgen Index 22.80

This could be down to using excessive amounts of various steroids on and off from the ages of 20-26 (now 29). I say "could be", because I had all the symptoms of low testosterone way before touching anabolics/exogenous testosterone.

I will admit that due to my lack of education at the time, I ran things for way longer than what I should have without the combination of ancillaries. I also never took adequate time off to get my body/hormones back to normal in between cycles. There were a few occasions towards the latter part of my use that I did some form of PCT, after doing bits of research over the past few years, it's safe to say I never followed a full recovery protocol.

The struggle I have, is the National Health Service we have here in the UK. They are trying to tell me that everything is within the normal range, which is ridiculous. Even I can tell that those numbers are not normal for a man my age.

The endocrinology department have said "we don't test for free testosterone", and that they won't pursue any further investigations or treatment. Basically it's an indirect way of them saying "we don't want to waste our time and money on you, when it can go somewhere else". So their course of action is more than likely based on budgets and costs, as opposed to treating my actual symptoms.

It's been 3 years since I've taken anabolic steroids and if my endogenous production was to normalise, it would have done so by now.I suppose this leaves me with the only option of taking matters into my own hands......

A private company I've spoken to have said that they will treat me via HCG mono therapy at 1500iu every other day, alongside arimidex(anastrozole) to curb estrogenic side effects. This route would be something I'd have to be on forever to boost my natural testosterone production and maintain fertility. The worry I have - isn't there a high probability of becoming desensitised to HCG and burning out the leydig cells at that high of a dosage on a permanent basis?

My goal if possible, is to coax my body/brain into being able to produce an optimal level of testosterone naturally and to preserve fertility, ultimately without the dependency of drugs.

The conflict in opinion/data on the internet is very confusing to say the least, I feel as if I've hit at a bit of a cross roads with all the information.

I'm hoping you could advise me on how to go about correcting this the right way. Would you recommend attempting a PCT or restart to try attain natural levels first? If I could get away with doing that, I'd like to do so. If it fails, then hormone intervention can be an option. I just don't want to jump on something for life if there's a chance I don't have to. I'm assuming that a full PCT would be the only way around getting my body and HPTA functioning optimally on their own?

From watching your videos I've got the following 4 week PCT protocol:
- Clomid 50mg every day for the first 2 weeks, 25mg for the last 2 weeks
- Nolvadex 40mg every day for the first 2 weeks, 20mg for the last 2 weeks
- Aromasin 12.5mg for 4 weeks
- MK2866 12.5mg to 25mg for 4 weeks
- GW501516 20mg for 4 weeks


Your thoughts on this would be appreciated mate!
 
that hcg protocol is the most ignorant thing i've heard and they CLEARLY don't have a clue what they are talking about... at this point, you have the right protocol plan for the pct you need but you need to run it 8-12 weeks MINIMUM to try to jumpstart production... you only run the mk2866 portion 4 weeks but everything else is at least 8...

here is the link to purchase the entire pct stack followed by the layout...




https://www.sarmsx.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=133




clomid 50/50/50/50/25/25/25/25
nolva 40/40/40/20/20/20/20/20
aromasin 12.5 mg eod
mk-2866 25 mg day

gw-501516 20 mg day
 
Thanks for the response mate. They've now come back saying that they will be reviewing the treatment and looking at a more bespoke approach, as I mentioned a potential restart in an email.

I thought this would have been their first suggestion to be honest. But then again their main focus is probably getting that risidual income - this is where I need to be careful. Putting me on something forever is a lot better for their bank balance than providing me with a possible cure that may only take 8-12 weeks.

It will be interesting to see what protocol they come up with in regards to a PCT/restart. I'll let you know what they say as I find out.

In the meantime, would you recommend using HCG with Arimidex 2-3 weeks before starting the PCT, to get my testes back to a normal size and functioning correctly. If so, what dosages would you suggest?
 
Follow Dylan's protocol exactly. Forget the HCG and Adex altogether my man.


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Thanks for the response mate. They've now come back saying that they will be reviewing the treatment and looking at a more bespoke approach, as I mentioned a potential restart in an email.

I thought this would have been their first suggestion to be honest. But then again their main focus is probably getting that risidual income - this is where I need to be careful. Putting me on something forever is a lot better for their bank balance than providing me with a possible cure that may only take 8-12 weeks.

It will be interesting to see what protocol they come up with in regards to a PCT/restart. I'll let you know what they say as I find out.

In the meantime, would you recommend using HCG with Arimidex 2-3 weeks before starting the PCT, to get my testes back to a normal size and functioning correctly. If so, what dosages would you suggest?
run hcg 1000 ius week until pct starts and arimidex at .5 mg eod.. do not use arimidex in pct... use the exact protocol i gave you
 
Your much better off going with the pct procotol Dylan gave you. The doctor trying to put you on HCG is just going to make matters worse for you over the long term. You don't want your issues getting worse
 
So.... back to the issue. I've consulted with 2 endocrinologists and they have both said that given the time I've been off steroids (3 years), that my hormone production would have normalised by now. Do you think it would be even worth doing a PCT, as most things ive read say that the PCT will evelavte things temporarily and then just revert back to the baseline I'm at now, once the PCT isn't discontinued.

I'm thinking of going down the clomid only route and just staying on that as a lot of people are getting good results with it. I'm not ready for TRT yet, but certainly not ready to accept my T levels the way they are.

Let me know what you think.
 
you can try whatever you want... i gave you the proper protocol... the point of pct is not to get you boosted for a few months and then to have things drop back as they were... you do whatever you want as you seem to have an idea as it is...
 
Gonna give the PCT a shot, as I'll only know the answer to my question by doing it. If it fails I can at least say I tried and then consider going on something like Clomid to maintain an optimal level. The reason I've been so indecisive is because of the whole chicken before the egg scenario, I suppose I'll soon find out whether I've been hypogonadal all along or not. Cheers again pal
 
i wish you nothing but the best brother.. keep me updated and let me know if you have any questions along the way
 
Hi Dylan,

One of your UK subscribers here!

I've got a slight problem on my hands - to cut a long story short, I've recently found out I have low testosterone. My levels are currently the equivalent of a man in his mid 80's.

UK measurements:
- Total Testosterone 13.00 nmol/L
- Free Testosterone 0.182 nmol/L
- Sex Hormone Binding Globulin 57.00 nmol/L
- Free Androgen Index 22.80

US measurements:
- Total Testosterone 370 ng/dl
- Free Testosterone 5.3 ng/dl
- Sex Hormone Binding Globulin 57.00 nmol/L
- Free Androgen Index 22.80

This could be down to using excessive amounts of various steroids on and off from the ages of 20-26 (now 29). I say "could be", because I had all the symptoms of low testosterone way before touching anabolics/exogenous testosterone.

I will admit that due to my lack of education at the time, I ran things for way longer than what I should have without the combination of ancillaries. I also never took adequate time off to get my body/hormones back to normal in between cycles. There were a few occasions towards the latter part of my use that I did some form of PCT, after doing bits of research over the past few years, it's safe to say I never followed a full recovery protocol.

The struggle I have, is the National Health Service we have here in the UK. They are trying to tell me that everything is within the normal range, which is ridiculous. Even I can tell that those numbers are not normal for a man my age.

The endocrinology department have said "we don't test for free testosterone", and that they won't pursue any further investigations or treatment. Basically it's an indirect way of them saying "we don't want to waste our time and money on you, when it can go somewhere else". So their course of action is more than likely based on budgets and costs, as opposed to treating my actual symptoms.

It's been 3 years since I've taken anabolic steroids and if my endogenous production was to normalise, it would have done so by now.I suppose this leaves me with the only option of taking matters into my own hands......

A private company I've spoken to have said that they will treat me via HCG mono therapy at 1500iu every other day, alongside arimidex(anastrozole) to curb estrogenic side effects. This route would be something I'd have to be on forever to boost my natural testosterone production and maintain fertility. The worry I have - isn't there a high probability of becoming desensitised to HCG and burning out the leydig cells at that high of a dosage on a permanent basis?

My goal if possible, is to coax my body/brain into being able to produce an optimal level of testosterone naturally and to preserve fertility, ultimately without the dependency of drugs.

The conflict in opinion/data on the internet is very confusing to say the least, I feel as if I've hit at a bit of a cross roads with all the information.

I'm hoping you could advise me on how to go about correcting this the right way. Would you recommend attempting a PCT or restart to try attain natural levels first? If I could get away with doing that, I'd like to do so. If it fails, then hormone intervention can be an option. I just don't want to jump on something for life if there's a chance I don't have to. I'm assuming that a full PCT would be the only way around getting my body and HPTA functioning optimally on their own?

From watching your videos I've got the following 4 week PCT protocol:
- Clomid 50mg every day for the first 2 weeks, 25mg for the last 2 weeks
- Nolvadex 40mg every day for the first 2 weeks, 20mg for the last 2 weeks
- Aromasin 12.5mg for 4 weeks
- MK2866 12.5mg to 25mg for 4 weeks
- GW501516 20mg for 4 weeks


Your thoughts on this would be appreciated mate!
I'm in the UK as well man and I feel your pain, getting a GP to take it seriously is a battle, they are too quick to focus on the numbers rather than the symptoms. If you don't get any joy with the advice given already, maybe give the NHS another shot - there are a few good endos out there, mine is looking after me well. I really only got taken seriously by my GP when I made it clear how depressed I was and that I was feeling suicidal. I've got a mate who is a GP who told me they are all terrified of malpractice and are quick to refer people to specialists when depression/suicidal thoughts are mentioned. I'm not advising you to lie but but I cant imagine that you wouldn't feel like that with low testesterosne. Not sure where you are based but there are a few highly regarded TRT clinics in London . If you do get TrT with the NHS they'll try to give you Testron Gel first - just refuse, shit is awful and actually made me worse, both physically and my blood work. I'm on Nibedo now and it's been life changing.

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