Next steps after a first cycle

[MrChristian]

Hi guys,

So I've got my first cycle and PCT all planned out and ready to start on September 1st. Thanks to everyone who has helped me plan this out in a safe and educated way.

Looking forward, I'd like to get an idea of what people typically do after their first cycle. What do you guys do in order to protect your gains? How do you eat and train? Do you use any SARMS while off cycle? And how long do you recommend waiting before doing another cycle?

So many questions! And I know much of this will depend on my goals and my body. For me the idea is to keep slowly building muscle, keep the fat % as low as I can and remain as healthy as possible. I'm 43 years old, 6'-1", currently 172 lbs @ 12% BF.

Many of you already know the cycle I'm planning to run. But for those who don't, here it is:

1-12 test cyp 350 mg week
1-14 aromasin 12.5 mg eod
1-6 tbol 60 mg day
1-6 cycle assist
1-12 lgd-4033 10 mg day
1-12 s4 50 mg day
1-12 gw-501516 20 mg day
9-14 winstrol 50 mg day
9-14 cycle assist
11-14 hcg 1000 ius week

pct 15-18
clomid 50/50/25/25
nolva 40/20/20/20
aromasin 12.5 mg eod
cycle assist
mk-2866 25 mg day
gw-501516 20 mg day

 

[JM750]

I really don't like giving out cycle advice cause everyone is different, but I'd run the test at 500 p/w That is not going over board for a first run. to me, you wanna really make this first one count. And I would eat like a fucking horse. You can afford to put a little fat on and still look great.

 

[drb_iac]

500mg on the the test. Next cycle in 3 months if you are in a hurry.Off cycle I like to then re-start creatine but that is not popular..only for me. Never had sarms but today I would use them. S4 twice per day, and gw twice. You still go to the gym and lift using the same weight if you can. Over time I have found that you cannot maintain those heavier weights,but that is ok because the weights are still heavy for you. Diet at maintainence.Next cycle same as the first and add some deca..200mg is a good start.Carefull ,cautious, and methodical.

 

[MrChristian]

I really don't like giving out cycle advice cause everyone is different, but I'd run the test at 500 p/w That is not going over board for a first run. to me, you wanna really make this first one count. And I would eat like a fucking horse. You can afford to put a little fat on and still look great.

Thanks man. Good to know about the 500mg of test. For this first cycle I'm going to stick with what Dylan recommended for me. Plus I don't think I ordered enough test to do 500mg per week. LOL

So I was specifically wondering about what people typically do after their cycle. So that's what I'm asking about here. So far I have figured out that there are two main methods to all of this. The 'Blast & Cruise' method and the 'Cycle and PCT' method. Since I'm going with Cycle and PCT, I'm just wondering what people do between cycles, how long to wait until a 2nd cycle, etc. I haven't seen that discussed much, so it's a bit of a question mark in my head right now.

 

[MrChristian]

500mg on the the test. Next cycle in 3 months if you are in a hurry.Off cycle I like to then re-start creatine but that is not popular..only for me. Never had sarms but today I would use them. S4 twice per day, and gw twice. You still go to the gym and lift using the same weight if you can. Over time I have found that you cannot maintain those heavier weights,but that is ok because the weights are still heavy for you. Diet at maintainence.Next cycle same as the first and add some deca..200mg is a good start.Carefull ,cautious, and methodical.

Fantastic! Thanks so much!

 

[JM750]

Time off should be equal to your time on + a couple weeks. You should get bloods done after to make sure your body is back on track before cycling again. Some people do a bridge. I've never done that, so I'm no help there.

 

[MrChristian]

Time off should be equal to your time on + a couple weeks. You should get bloods done after to make sure your body is back on track before cycling again. Some people do a bridge. I've never done that, so I'm no help there.

Great advice. I'll definitely get the bloods done post cycle. Yes, I've heard people mention doing a bridge, but I have no clue what that would involve. So if anyone cares to elaborate that would be most excellent.

 

[Guest]

Time off should be equal to your time on + a couple weeks. You should get bloods done after to make sure your body is back on track before cycling again. Some people do a bridge. I've never done that, so I'm no help there.

Great advice. I'll definitely get the bloods done post cycle. Yes, I've heard people mention doing a bridge, but I have no clue what that would involve. So if anyone cares to elaborate that would be most excellent.

Most guys confuse a real bridge and never coming off.. If you are still adding hormones into your body then that is not a post cycle. You don't need a whole bunch of products to keep your gains, but you definitely need to work equally as hard if not harder than you did on cycle to keep majority of your gains. Some Sarms would be a good option to bridge with but I'd still focus on a full and proper PCT if I were you first and foremost

 

[MrChristian]

Time off should be equal to your time on + a couple weeks. You should get bloods done after to make sure your body is back on track before cycling again. Some people do a bridge. I've never done that, so I'm no help there.

Great advice. I'll definitely get the bloods done post cycle. Yes, I've heard people mention doing a bridge, but I have no clue what that would involve. So if anyone cares to elaborate that would be most excellent.

Most guys confuse a real bridge and never coming off.. If you are still adding hormones into your body then that is not a post cycle. You don't need a whole bunch of products to keep your gains, but you definitely need to work equally as hard if not harder than you did on cycle to keep majority of your gains. Some Sarms would be a good option to bridge with but I'd still focus on a full and proper PCT if I were you first and foremost

Thanks so much. Yes, doing a solid PCT is definitely a major priority for me.

 

[MrChristian]

500mg on the the test. Next cycle in 3 months if you are in a hurry.Off cycle I like to then re-start creatine but that is not popular..only for me. Never had sarms but today I would use them. S4 twice per day, and gw twice. You still go to the gym and lift using the same weight if you can. Over time I have found that you cannot maintain those heavier weights,but that is ok because the weights are still heavy for you. Diet at maintainence.Next cycle same as the first and add some deca..200mg is a good start.Carefull ,cautious, and methodical.

To be honest, Dylan's video about Deca scared me a bit. The water retention aspect is specifically what I was hoping to avoid. That's the reason I went with tbol instead of dbol this time. But maybe I misunderstood or I'm overreacting. I'm certainly willing to consider it if there's a way to do it without the water retention.

 

[MrChristian]

I really don't like giving out cycle advice cause everyone is different, but I'd run the test at 500 p/w That is not going over board for a first run. to me, you wanna really make this first one count. And I would eat like a fucking horse. You can afford to put a little fat on and still look great.

I'm planning to eat around 3000 cals per day to start. I'll adjust as appropriate as I go along. That will be with macros at 40/40/20. The last time I did a bulk I was at 3400 calories per day, but I put on WAY too much fat in the process. So I'm going to be a bit more conservative this time. Plus I'll be eating fewer carbs and using better carb sources. It's nice that you think I can afford to put on some fat. But since I was heavier in the past I'm still freakin' paranoid about it. I still feel like I've got too much fat at 12%. LOL I've been banging my head against the wall trying to get to 10% over the past 6 months with strictly diet and exercise (no SARMS), but it's been VERY slow going. Still making progress though.

 

[drb_iac]

500mg on the the test. Next cycle in 3 months if you are in a hurry.Off cycle I like to then re-start creatine but that is not popular..only for me. Never had sarms but today I would use them. S4 twice per day, and gw twice. You still go to the gym and lift using the same weight if you can. Over time I have found that you cannot maintain those heavier weights,but that is ok because the weights are still heavy for you. Diet at maintainence.Next cycle same as the first and add some deca..200mg is a good start.Carefull ,cautious, and methodical.

To be honest, Dylan's video about Deca scared me a bit. The water retention aspect is specifically what I was hoping to avoid. That's the reason I went with tbol instead of dbol this time. But maybe I misunderstood or I'm overreacting. I'm certainly willing to consider it if there's a way to do it without the water retention.

I have done deca in every cycle I have ever done. Deca is the all time, all american favorite combined with test. This simple stack has been used since 1962. The most used stack ever. I do not understand the problem with deca. When Michael Mooney first started consulting with AIDS patients who were wasting away the very first thing that the doctors tried? 200/200 deca/ cyp. The all time favorite arnold stack? deca/cyp/dbol..finish off with primo. So I have only used deca in 50 cycles, so maybe I am wrong. But for me...it will always be in every stack. Now if you get to 600mg deca then it is time to back off. Starting out with 200 and working your way to 600 takes quite a few years. I did 1000mg for the first time this year. I only did it once and got deca dick. There is my and only side effect ever from deca.

 

[SpikedEggnog]

[quote="drb_iac":11zo8c3a]500mg on the the test. Next cycle in 3 months if you are in a hurry.Off cycle I like to then re-start creatine but that is not popular..only for me. Never had sarms but today I would use them. S4 twice per day, and gw twice. You still go to the gym and lift using the same weight if you can. Over time I have found that you cannot maintain those heavier weights,but that is ok because the weights are still heavy for you. Diet at maintainence.Next cycle same as the first and add some deca..200mg is a good start.Carefull ,cautious, and methodical.

To be honest, Dylan's video about Deca scared me a bit. The water retention aspect is specifically what I was hoping to avoid. That's the reason I went with tbol instead of dbol this time. But maybe I misunderstood or I'm overreacting. I'm certainly willing to consider it if there's a way to do it without the water retention.

I have done deca in every cycle I have ever done. Deca is the all time, all american favorite combined with test. This simple stack has been used since 1962. The most used stack ever. I do not understand the problem with deca. When Michael Mooney first started consulting with AIDS patients who were wasting away the very first thing that the doctors tried? 200/200 deca/ cyp. The all time favorite arnold stack? deca/cyp/dbol..finish off with primo. So I have only used deca in 50 cycles, so maybe I am wrong. But for me...it will always be in every stack. Now if you get to 600mg deca then it is time to back off. Starting out with 200 and working your way to 600 takes quite a few years. I did 1000mg for the first time this year. I only did it once and got deca dick. There is my and only side effect ever from deca.[/quote:11zo8c3a]

1000 mg? piece of garbage that's alot..but dude did Arnold use Test Cyp? I didn't think they had Test back then..

 

[MrChristian]

[quote="drb_iac":jtk3msuy]500mg on the the test. Next cycle in 3 months if you are in a hurry.Off cycle I like to then re-start creatine but that is not popular..only for me. Never had sarms but today I would use them. S4 twice per day, and gw twice. You still go to the gym and lift using the same weight if you can. Over time I have found that you cannot maintain those heavier weights,but that is ok because the weights are still heavy for you. Diet at maintainence.Next cycle same as the first and add some deca..200mg is a good start.Carefull ,cautious, and methodical.

To be honest, Dylan's video about Deca scared me a bit. The water retention aspect is specifically what I was hoping to avoid. That's the reason I went with tbol instead of dbol this time. But maybe I misunderstood or I'm overreacting. I'm certainly willing to consider it if there's a way to do it without the water retention.

I have done deca in every cycle I have ever done. Deca is the all time, all american favorite combined with test. This simple stack has been used since 1962. The most used stack ever. I do not understand the problem with deca. When Michael Mooney first started consulting with AIDS patients who were wasting away the very first thing that the doctors tried? 200/200 deca/ cyp. The all time favorite arnold stack? deca/cyp/dbol..finish off with primo. So I have only used deca in 50 cycles, so maybe I am wrong. But for me...it will always be in every stack. Now if you get to 600mg deca then it is time to back off. Starting out with 200 and working your way to 600 takes quite a few years. I did 1000mg for the first time this year. I only did it once and got deca dick. There is my and only side effect ever from deca.[/quote:jtk3msuy]

This helps put my mind at ease. Thanks for the perspective DrB. You are The Man, as always.

 

[drb_iac]

[quote="drb_iac":2b7zosf1]500mg on the the test. Next cycle in 3 months if you are in a hurry.Off cycle I like to then re-start creatine but that is not popular..only for me. Never had sarms but today I would use them. S4 twice per day, and gw twice. You still go to the gym and lift using the same weight if you can. Over time I have found that you cannot maintain those heavier weights,but that is ok because the weights are still heavy for you. Diet at maintainence.Next cycle same as the first and add some deca..200mg is a good start.Carefull ,cautious, and methodical.

To be honest, Dylan's video about Deca scared me a bit. The water retention aspect is specifically what I was hoping to avoid. That's the reason I went with tbol instead of dbol this time. But maybe I misunderstood or I'm overreacting. I'm certainly willing to consider it if there's a way to do it without the water retention.

I have done deca in every cycle I have ever done. Deca is the all time, all american favorite combined with test. This simple stack has been used since 1962. The most used stack ever. I do not understand the problem with deca. When Michael Mooney first started consulting with AIDS patients who were wasting away the very first thing that the doctors tried? 200/200 deca/ cyp. The all time favorite arnold stack? deca/cyp/dbol..finish off with primo. So I have only used deca in 50 cycles, so maybe I am wrong. But for me...it will always be in every stack. Now if you get to 600mg deca then it is time to back off. Starting out with 200 and working your way to 600 takes quite a few years. I did 1000mg for the first time this year. I only did it once and got deca dick. There is my and only side effect ever from deca.

1000 mg? piece of garbage that's alot..but dude did Arnold use Test Cyp? I didn't think they had Test back then..[/quote:2b7zosf1]

Sorry ..when I say test I always mean it to be sus/cyp/ or enan. Test pro is only good for me when it is in sus.I otherwise do not acknowledge it.Plus..like winny in water it pips. The 1000mg deca was a dare. I had done deca for over 50 cycles and at my age I knew cycles were going to be coming to an end. There was a disscussion on this board about how many cc's is safe to inject. Thats how I roll..if there is a dispute I do it on myself. So one time..at the end of a cycle I shot 10cc containing 1000mg deca. What did I prove? That 10cc is nothing, and that 1000deca made me not feel so good. So it took me 50 cycles to go from 150mg deca when I was young to 600-800 in my latter years. I could instinctivly feel that 800 deca was close to being too much. Just more info into my diary bro. When I am done I will have a step by step book on how to use aas for 40 years and stil be in very good shape. Deca was with me for my entire lifting life. It may be at 200 in the first cycle, but the next cycle would be 200 again with an oral. Then 200 with another injectable. On it went until I would up the deca.So then the cycle would be 200 deca/500 cyp, then nect cycle add an oral, nect cycle add another injectable. Follow my logic...it makes sense and it works.

 

[drb_iac]

[quote="drb_iac":xzwcwyvc]500mg on the the test. Next cycle in 3 months if you are in a hurry.Off cycle I like to then re-start creatine but that is not popular..only for me. Never had sarms but today I would use them. S4 twice per day, and gw twice. You still go to the gym and lift using the same weight if you can. Over time I have found that you cannot maintain those heavier weights,but that is ok because the weights are still heavy for you. Diet at maintainence.Next cycle same as the first and add some deca..200mg is a good start.Carefull ,cautious, and methodical.

To be honest, Dylan's video about Deca scared me a bit. The water retention aspect is specifically what I was hoping to avoid. That's the reason I went with tbol instead of dbol this time. But maybe I misunderstood or I'm overreacting. I'm certainly willing to consider it if there's a way to do it without the water retention.

I have done deca in every cycle I have ever done. Deca is the all time, all american favorite combined with test. This simple stack has been used since 1962. The most used stack ever. I do not understand the problem with deca. When Michael Mooney first started consulting with AIDS patients who were wasting away the very first thing that the doctors tried? 200/200 deca/ cyp. The all time favorite arnold stack? deca/cyp/dbol..finish off with primo. So I have only used deca in 50 cycles, so maybe I am wrong. But for me...it will always be in every stack. Now if you get to 600mg deca then it is time to back off. Starting out with 200 and working your way to 600 takes quite a few years. I did 1000mg for the first time this year. I only did it once and got deca dick. There is my and only side effect ever from deca.

1000 mg? piece of garbage that's alot..but dude did Arnold use Test Cyp? I didn't think they had Test back then..[/quote:xzwcwyvc]
re-reading what I wrote I did say arnold used deca/cyp.And I did say michael mooney used deca/ cyp on aids patients. I did not write test. But I do always mean test to be cyp/sus/enan

 

[SpikedEggnog]

[quote="drb_iac":100q7g9p]

[quote="drb_iac":100q7g9p]500mg on the the test. Next cycle in 3 months if you are in a hurry.Off cycle I like to then re-start creatine but that is not popular..only for me. Never had sarms but today I would use them. S4 twice per day, and gw twice. You still go to the gym and lift using the same weight if you can. Over time I have found that you cannot maintain those heavier weights,but that is ok because the weights are still heavy for you. Diet at maintainence.Next cycle same as the first and add some deca..200mg is a good start.Carefull ,cautious, and methodical.

To be honest, Dylan's video about Deca scared me a bit. The water retention aspect is specifically what I was hoping to avoid. That's the reason I went with tbol instead of dbol this time. But maybe I misunderstood or I'm overreacting. I'm certainly willing to consider it if there's a way to do it without the water retention.

I have done deca in every cycle I have ever done. Deca is the all time, all american favorite combined with test. This simple stack has been used since 1962. The most used stack ever. I do not understand the problem with deca. When Michael Mooney first started consulting with AIDS patients who were wasting away the very first thing that the doctors tried? 200/200 deca/ cyp. The all time favorite arnold stack? deca/cyp/dbol..finish off with primo. So I have only used deca in 50 cycles, so maybe I am wrong. But for me...it will always be in every stack. Now if you get to 600mg deca then it is time to back off. Starting out with 200 and working your way to 600 takes quite a few years. I did 1000mg for the first time this year. I only did it once and got deca dick. There is my and only side effect ever from deca.

1000 mg? piece of garbage that's alot..but dude did Arnold use Test Cyp? I didn't think they had Test back then..[/quote:100q7g9p]
re-reading what I wrote I did say arnold used deca/cyp.And I did say michael mooney used deca/ cyp on aids patients. I did not write test. But I do always mean test to be cyp/sus/enan[/quote:100q7g9p]

yeah you didnt write Test but you wrote Cyp so i assumed you meant Test Cypionate, but I am still unsure because I did not think that they used Testosterone injections back in the day?? When did Test really start becoming a big thing?

 

[drb_iac]

[quote="drb_iac":1cdx3uq9]

[quote="drb_iac":1cdx3uq9]500mg on the the test. Next cycle in 3 months if you are in a hurry.Off cycle I like to then re-start creatine but that is not popular..only for me. Never had sarms but today I would use them. S4 twice per day, and gw twice. You still go to the gym and lift using the same weight if you can. Over time I have found that you cannot maintain those heavier weights,but that is ok because the weights are still heavy for you. Diet at maintainence.Next cycle same as the first and add some deca..200mg is a good start.Carefull ,cautious, and methodical.

To be honest, Dylan's video about Deca scared me a bit. The water retention aspect is specifically what I was hoping to avoid. That's the reason I went with tbol instead of dbol this time. But maybe I misunderstood or I'm overreacting. I'm certainly willing to consider it if there's a way to do it without the water retention.

I have done deca in every cycle I have ever done. Deca is the all time, all american favorite combined with test. This simple stack has been used since 1962. The most used stack ever. I do not understand the problem with deca. When Michael Mooney first started consulting with AIDS patients who were wasting away the very first thing that the doctors tried? 200/200 deca/ cyp. The all time favorite arnold stack? deca/cyp/dbol..finish off with primo. So I have only used deca in 50 cycles, so maybe I am wrong. But for me...it will always be in every stack. Now if you get to 600mg deca then it is time to back off. Starting out with 200 and working your way to 600 takes quite a few years. I did 1000mg for the first time this year. I only did it once and got deca dick. There is my and only side effect ever from deca.

1000 mg? piece of garbage that's alot..but dude did Arnold use Test Cyp? I didn't think they had Test back then..

re-reading what I wrote I did say arnold used deca/cyp.And I did say michael mooney used deca/ cyp on aids patients. I did not write test. But I do always mean test to be cyp/sus/enan[/quote:1cdx3uq9]

yeah you didnt write Test but you wrote Cyp so i assumed you meant Test Cypionate, but I am still unsure because I did not think that they used Testosterone injections back in the day?? When did Test really start becoming a big thing?[/quote:1cdx3uq9]

OMG-Organon had cyp developed in 1930! To be clear...testosterone cypionate was put together in 1930 by a company called Organon. Of course they used Testosterone cypionate in the 60's. Wait wait...I USED TESTOSTERONE IN THE 60'S!

 

[drb_iac]

You seem like a guy who really wants to learn. I would urge you to lay off of the net as being gospel. Start by buying a book called "Built to Survive", and see what leading thinkers and leading endocrinologists and leading M.D.'s are saying. There are tons nof research papers quoted in this book, and it is written by the legendary aas guru Michael Mooney. There will be stuff there that may directly contradict what you might be reading online. There will be cycles that are poo pooed. Ramp up, ramp down cycles, 12 week power cycles etc. What about pct? Clomid was for women when it came out and it was a very long time before it was used as pct. So what did the bodybuilders of the 60-70's use for pct? How many from those times never heard the term pct. There are books..yes books that are written by today's leading researchers, that may shed a whole new light on the way you use and view aas. Good luck!

 

[BigBusiness]

You seem like a guy who really wants to learn. I would urge you to lay off of the net as being gospel. Start by buying a book called "Built to Survive", and see what leading thinkers and leading endocrinologists and leading M.D.'s are saying. There are tons nof research papers quoted in this book, and it is written by the legendary aas guru Michael Mooney. There will be stuff there that may directly contradict what you might be reading online. There will be cycles that are poo pooed. Ramp up, ramp down cycles, 12 week power cycles etc. What about pct? Clomid was for women when it came out and it was a very long time before it was used as pct. So what did the bodybuilders of the 60-70's use for pct? How many from those times never heard the term pct. There are books..yes books that are written by today's leading researchers, that may shed a whole new light on the way you use and view aas. Good luck!

Very Nice!!! I love reading and this just jumped to the top of the list!!