First cycle! "Lean bulk"

[addicted2shredz]

Im thinking of doing a shorter cycle that would be 8 weeks, the reason i want to do 8 weeks is to get my feet wet and ensure a greater and easier recovery. I'm currently sitting around 13% BF and would like to avoid bloat and try to keep my bf around the same (even lower would be amazing, but understandable if i add a % or two to my bf) and add 5 - 10 lbs of muscle. My proposed cycle.

8 Weeks

test prop 150 eod 1 - 8
arimidex 0.25 eod 1 - 8

PCT

clomid 40/40/20/20

(2 days after last prop injection)

im debating on adding winstrol/anavar 50mg ed for the last 4 weeks of my cycle or should i just keep it basic and add those for a later cycle.

Critique away, here to learn.

 

[MarkD]

I would definetly add Winstrol. I have never used Anavar so I can't attest for it. Winny will really help you look lean and without any extra bloat. Although, the adex will help with that greatly. I personally love the dryness I get from adex.

 

[ibleedoranbla]

Im thinking of doing a shorter cycle that would be 8 weeks, the reason i want to do 8 weeks is to get my feet wet and ensure a greater and easier recovery. I'm currently sitting around 13% BF and would like to avoid bloat and try to keep my bf around the same (even lower would be amazing, but understandable if i add a % or two to my bf) and add 5 - 10 lbs of muscle. My proposed cycle.

8 Weeks

test prop 150 eod 1 - 8
arimidex 0.25 eod 1 - 8

PCT

clomid 40/40/20/20

(2 days after last prop injection)

im debating on adding winstrol/anavar 50mg ed for the last 4 weeks of my cycle or should i just keep it basic and add those for a later cycle.

Critique away, here to learn.

How old are you bro?

Prop is not a good choice for a first cycle. A much better plan is 12 weeks with test e or c. Don't get so wrapped up in the bloat, it can be managed with diet and aromasin. Have you given sarms a thought, they sound like a much better option for your current goals. The new sarm RAD-140 would be perfect here.

 

[addicted2shredz]

How old are you bro?

Prop is not a good choice for a first cycle. A much better plan is 12 weeks with test e or c. Don't get so wrapped up in the bloat, it can be managed with diet and aromasin. Have you given sarms a thought, they sound like a much better option for your current goals. The new sarm RAD-140 would be perfect here.

im 21 and ive never heard about sarms, id rather just stick to the traditionals. Reason i dont want to do test e, is that it takes like 4 - 5 weeks to kick in, really like how prop kicks in asap and its less estrogenic activity

 

[addicted2shredz]

How old are you bro?

Prop is not a good choice for a first cycle. A much better plan is 12 weeks with test e or c. Don't get so wrapped up in the bloat, it can be managed with diet and aromasin. Have you given sarms a thought, they sound like a much better option for your current goals. The new sarm RAD-140 would be perfect here.

could i kick start the enthanate with 4 weeks of winstrol 50mg ed?

 

[ibleedoranbla]

im 21 and ive never heard about sarms, id rather just stick to the traditionals. Reason i dont want to do test e, is that it takes like 4 - 5 weeks to kick in, really like how prop kicks in asap and its less estrogenic activity

Well, 21 is really young to start Aas. Sarms really are a much better option for you right now but that is obviously your choice. There is no shutdown with sarms little to no estrogenic activity and the gains are very attainable.

Prop doesn't give you any less estrogen sides than e or c. Test is test, sides are dose and user dependent. With prop you have to pin eod and this can be a big problem for inexperienced users.

could i kick start the enthanate with 4 weeks of winstrol 50mg ed?

Yes, you can kick start with winstrol but most people use winstrol at the end of the cycle to clean their gains up. Tbol is a better kick start option but as I said I really think you should look into sarms. They are where I started at.

 

[SpikedEggnog]

im 21 and ive never heard about sarms, id rather just stick to the traditionals. Reason i dont want to do test e, is that it takes like 4 - 5 weeks to kick in, really like how prop kicks in asap and its less estrogenic activity

yeah it takes longer to kick in but also last longer in your system after you pin so it evens out in the end. prop does not have less estrogenic activity. some people say they hold less water on short esters but that could be due to several variables. bottom line is that you cannot say that Prop will cause less estro sides because that is not true, you pin a lot of Prop and you can get gyno, bloating, etc. just as easily as a longer ester. for a first cycle there is absolutely no reason to use Prop over Cyp or En, unless you just want to stab yourself more or you have to take a drug test. you say you want to keep your BF the same and add 5-10 lbs of muscle. this is achieved through your DIET mostly not the AAS. you can stay dry and shred down on test cypionate, it all depends on dosage diet and training. everything you are telling us shows that you need to slow down a bit and think logically about things, you are trying to rush into steroids and that is not good. i gained between 10-15 lbs AND lost BF% on 100mg test cyp. yes 100 mg. do you know why? it is because i dialed in my diet and trained very hard consistently for months....and you are trying to pin 600mg test PROP a week...do you see the problems?

at age 21 i would not recommend cycling at this point. you are too young and inexperienced and your body is still maturing and growing. you have never heard about SARMS but yet you dont want them? i think it would be beneficial to understand what they are first before you decide you do not want them. you dont even have enough information to make a good judgment about them. for right now SARMS are the best option for you in every way. you can gain muscle and lose fat with no water retention/ bloating or gyno. no liver toxic, etc. they are cheaper and easier to obtain and have a smaller PCT protocol. everything about them is better for your current situation..no top of all that there is a 20% off sale going on for SARMS right now at pure essence. this sale starts and ends tomorrow, 1 day only

 

[21infantry]

yeah it takes longer to kick in but also last longer in your system after you pin so it evens out in the end. prop does not have less estrogenic activity. some people say they hold less water on short esters but that could be due to several variables. bottom line is that you cannot say that Prop will cause less estro sides because that is not true, you pin a lot of Prop and you can get gyno, bloating, etc. just as easily as a longer ester. for a first cycle there is absolutely no reason to use Prop over Cyp or En, unless you just want to stab yourself more or you have to take a drug test. you say you want to keep your BF the same and add 5-10 lbs of muscle. this is achieved through your DIET mostly not the AAS. you can stay dry and shred down on test cypionate, it all depends on dosage diet and training. everything you are telling us shows that you need to slow down a bit and think logically about things, you are trying to rush into steroids and that is not good. i gained between 10-15 lbs AND lost BF% on 100mg test cyp. yes 100 mg. do you know why? it is because i dialed in my diet and trained very hard consistently for months....and you are trying to pin 600mg test PROP a week...do you see the problems?

at age 21 i would not recommend cycling at this point. you are too young and inexperienced and your body is still maturing and growing. you have never heard about SARMS but yet you dont want them? i think it would be beneficial to understand what they are first before you decide you do not want them. you dont even have enough information to make a good judgment about them. for right now SARMS are the best option for you in every way. you can gain muscle and lose fat with no water retention/ bloating or gyno. no liver toxic, etc. they are cheaper and easier to obtain and have a smaller PCT protocol. everything about them is better for your current situation..no top of all that there is a 20% off sale going on for SARMS right now at pure essence. this sale starts and ends tomorrow, 1 day only

Truth, spoken. You will regret this latter on in life. Way to much in the first place. You probably could gain almost the same on 300 test then 600 with half the damage being done and less sides. More is not always better, espeacialy for a first cycle. And Sarms are the shyte with almost non of the sides of AAS.

 

[ibleedoranbla]

yeah it takes longer to kick in but also last longer in your system after you pin so it evens out in the end. prop does not have less estrogenic activity. some people say they hold less water on short esters but that could be due to several variables. bottom line is that you cannot say that Prop will cause less estro sides because that is not true, you pin a lot of Prop and you can get gyno, bloating, etc. just as easily as a longer ester. for a first cycle there is absolutely no reason to use Prop over Cyp or En, unless you just want to stab yourself more or you have to take a drug test. you say you want to keep your BF the same and add 5-10 lbs of muscle. this is achieved through your DIET mostly not the AAS. you can stay dry and shred down on test cypionate, it all depends on dosage diet and training. everything you are telling us shows that you need to slow down a bit and think logically about things, you are trying to rush into steroids and that is not good. i gained between 10-15 lbs AND lost BF% on 100mg test cyp. yes 100 mg. do you know why? it is because i dialed in my diet and trained very hard consistently for months....and you are trying to pin 600mg test PROP a week...do you see the problems?

at age 21 i would not recommend cycling at this point. you are too young and inexperienced and your body is still maturing and growing. you have never heard about SARMS but yet you dont want them? i think it would be beneficial to understand what they are first before you decide you do not want them. you dont even have enough information to make a good judgment about them. for right now SARMS are the best option for you in every way. you can gain muscle and lose fat with no water retention/ bloating or gyno. no liver toxic, etc. they are cheaper and easier to obtain and have a smaller PCT protocol. everything about them is better for your current situation..no top of all that there is a 20% off sale going on for SARMS right now at pure essence. this sale starts and ends tomorrow, 1 day only

Exactly what I was trying to convey, I couldn't have said it any better.

 

[addicted2shredz]

Exactly what I was trying to convey, I couldn't have said it any better.

i wouldnt take 600mg of prop a week,

150 prop on mondays, wednesday, fridays

thats only 450. Ive always thought doing steroids in a well proper way is much safer then using sarms, pro hormones and all that stuff

 

[addicted2shredz]

yeah it takes longer to kick in but also last longer in your system after you pin so it evens out in the end. prop does not have less estrogenic activity. some people say they hold less water on short esters but that could be due to several variables. bottom line is that you cannot say that Prop will cause less estro sides because that is not true, you pin a lot of Prop and you can get gyno, bloating, etc. just as easily as a longer ester. for a first cycle there is absolutely no reason to use Prop over Cyp or En, unless you just want to stab yourself more or you have to take a drug test. you say you want to keep your BF the same and add 5-10 lbs of muscle. this is achieved through your DIET mostly not the AAS. you can stay dry and shred down on test cypionate, it all depends on dosage diet and training. everything you are telling us shows that you need to slow down a bit and think logically about things, you are trying to rush into steroids and that is not good. i gained between 10-15 lbs AND lost BF% on 100mg test cyp. yes 100 mg. do you know why? it is because i dialed in my diet and trained very hard consistently for months....and you are trying to pin 600mg test PROP a week...do you see the problems?

at age 21 i would not recommend cycling at this point. you are too young and inexperienced and your body is still maturing and growing. you have never heard about SARMS but yet you dont want them? i think it would be beneficial to understand what they are first before you decide you do not want them. you dont even have enough information to make a good judgment about them. for right now SARMS are the best option for you in every way. you can gain muscle and lose fat with no water retention/ bloating or gyno. no liver toxic, etc. they are cheaper and easier to obtain and have a smaller PCT protocol. everything about them is better for your current situation..no top of all that there is a 20% off sale going on for SARMS right now at pure essence. this sale starts and ends tomorrow, 1 day only

ive always read that doing a well laid out steroid cycle is much better then using sarms, pro hormones and all that "legal" grey zone stuff, and id only be pinning 450 of test prop a week, 600 is def an over kill for a first cycle, i could easily lower it to 300 a week though! everywhere ive read everyones said do at least 150mg eod

 

[ibleedoranbla]

i wouldnt take 600mg of prop a week,

150 prop on mondays, wednesday, fridays

thats only 450. Ive always thought doing steroids in a well proper way is much safer then using sarms, pro hormones and all that stuff

Sarms are the safest thing you can take. They aren't prohormones or anything like them. You should really do yourself a favor and do some pressing on sarms. They fit what you're looking for perfectly. Our sponsor here, Pure Essence has the highest quality sarms available. They have a big 20% off flash sale going tomorrow which is a huge sale. Look around here on the forum and read up.

 

[addicted2shredz]

Sarms are the safest thing you can take. They aren't prohormones or anything like them. You should really do yourself a favor and do some pressing on sarms. They fit what you're looking for perfectly. Our sponsor here, Pure Essence has the highest quality sarms available. They have a big 20% off flash sale going tomorrow which is a huge sale. Look around here on the forum and read up.

i love this site and i don't wanna come off as ignorant, but id feel a lot more secure running a test cycle then sarms, i have read they promote LBM without androgenic concepts but since theyre brand new chemicals on the market id rather not use em, ive read people having tons of vision problems and wierd side effects.

Side note: is that i actually have low testesterone, forgot to mention this only at 400 ng/dl and i have a high cholesteral high fat diet so thats one of the main reasons i really want to try test.

 

[SpikedEggnog]

ive always read that doing a well laid out steroid cycle is much better then using sarms, pro hormones and all that "legal" grey zone stuff, and id only be pinning 450 of test prop a week, 600 is def an over kill for a first cycle, i could easily lower it to 300 a week though! everywhere ive read everyones said do at least 150mg eod

with what you laid out, you said 150 EOD, so that would be mon, wed, fri, sun, and then tue, thur, sat, and then it starts over. so that would be 600mg per week/7 days. but if you meant 450 a wk then ok but that is still overboard in my opinion.

roids are better in what way? depending on goals, age, experience, etc. they may or may not be a better option. but that is NOT an absolute statement. same for dosing. saying use at least X amount of TEST is a ridiculous statement in my opinion because everyone is different and the dosages vary greatly based on age, experience, goals, etc. for your age and experience SARMS are a better choice, which is what we have been telling you already.

you want to build muscle and minimize or lose fat without any water retention/gyno or liver toxicity, SARMS will help you do that. SARMS are NOT pro hormone trash, pro hormones can be even more dangerous then AAS and can cause gyno and other issues. you need to understand what SARMS are first and that SARMS are not brand new, they have been around for awhile. a lot of people use SARMS, including athletes and BBers. vision issues with SARMS are usually associated with S4 aka andarine and depend on person and dosage, not everyone gets vision sides. and vision sides arent even that bad compared to AAS, you can permanently damage your HPTA/testicular function, get gyno, bloating, high blood pressure, acne, balding, joint problems, tendon/muscle tears, liver or kidney toxicity, etc etc. SARMS sides are NOTHING compared to AAS.

here on the forums we have our sarms source and sponsor, pure essence. if you use outside sources you risk getting bunk sarms or even pro hormones in some cases, you may find good or bad sarms but the risk is unneeded when we have forum sponsors here..
again they have a 20% off sale starting tomorrow (sunday) and lasting ONLY 24 hrs, so its best to get your SARMS when they have sales, unless you just want to pay more....

high cholesterol high fat diet? why would you want to try test because of that? that doesnt make sense. and GW has a positive effect on cholesterol and helps aid Fat Loss. GW is commonly stacked with Ostarine and Andarine/S4 for a sarms fat loss stack. you can easily gain 10 lbs AND lose bodyfat assuming diet and training are good.

400 test levels isnt that low, mine were around 300 last year. and just because you feel your test is a little low doesnt mean you should start pinning TEST, that will only make your test even LOWER and shut down your testes and you may not recover even with PCT.

 

[ibleedoranbla]

i love this site and i don't wanna come off as ignorant, but id feel a lot more secure running a test cycle then sarms, i have read they promote LBM without androgenic concepts but since theyre brand new chemicals on the market id rather not use em, ive read people having tons of vision problems and wierd side effects.

Side note: is that i actually have low testesterone, forgot to mention this only at 400 ng/dl and i have a high cholesteral high fat diet so thats one of the main reasons i really want to try test.

The only sarm that carries vision sides is S4 and not everyone gets those sides. Also, there is an entire protocol written for dosing S4 to mitigate the sides. Sarms have been around for about 20 years now, obviously not as long as most aas but I can assure you they are non toxic and carry virtually no sides. I have ran numerous cycles of them. However, I can respect your concerns and at ghee end of the day the choice is yours. Just know I wouldn't ever recommend anything that I don't personally use. With that said, if you're set on using aas, I would advise against prop for your first cycle. Stick with test c or e for 12 weeks and use tbol for a kick start for the first 6 weeks. Don't forget about your liver protection and make sure you have a complete pct lined out.

 

[RickRock]

First cycle! "Lean bulk"

I think you are a little young yet for AAS buddy. I wouldn't touch any steroids for a few more years. If you are looking for enhancement the only thing I can recommend to you at this point is sarms. That's honestly going to be the best option for you at this point. They are side effect free and very safe. The only one that has any side effects whatsoever is S4 with vision side effects that are dose defendant, not a big deal, and easily alleviated with proper dosing. They also are 100% temporary. Here is a good protocol I would recommend to you

1-12 lgd-4033 10 mg day dosed once a day in the a.m.
1-12 S4 50 mg day... split doses... 25 mg in the a.m. and 25 mg in the p.m.
1-12 GW-510516 (CARDARINE) 20 mg day… dosed all at once 30 minutes before workout…
1-12 mk-2866 25 mg day dosed once a day in the a.m.


PCT

clomid 50/25/25/25
gw-501516 20 mg day

There's a huge sale on all these at www.pureessencesarms.com and you can also check out articles on them

 

[SpikedEggnog]

hey man rick laid out the sarms cycle for you. the only other thing to mention is that some people have issues with stomach when taking sarms, like gas or cramping so sometimes they take sarms with food instead of empty stomach to alleviate this problem. other then that, the S4 vision issues is the only other side effect that is known. just letting you know so you can be aware.

 

[addicted2shredz]

I think you are a little young yet for AAS buddy. I wouldn't touch any steroids for a few more years. If you are looking for enhancement the only thing I can recommend to you at this point is sarms. That's honestly going to be the best option for you at this point. They are side effect free and very safe. The only one that has any side effects whatsoever is S4 with vision side effects that are dose defendant, not a big deal, and easily alleviated with proper dosing. They also are 100% temporary. Here is a good protocol I would recommend to you

1-12 lgd-4033 10 mg day dosed once a day in the a.m.
1-12 S4 50 mg day... split doses... 25 mg in the a.m. and 25 mg in the p.m.
1-12 GW-510516 (CARDARINE) 20 mg day… dosed all at once 30 minutes before workout…
1-12 mk-2866 25 mg day dosed once a day in the a.m.


PCT

clomid 50/25/25/25
gw-501516 20 mg day

There's a huge sale on all these at www.pureessencesarms.com and you can also check out articles on them

hey im thinking of doing your proposed cycle, but 2 questions.

How will the gains/pumps/dry look compare from say using prop to using sarms?

Does this website ship to canada? cant find info on that site about that anywhere

sorry for the questions just becoming interested in sarms

edit: just saw they ship worldwide, alright ill most likely look into them, but i dont get paid till thursday so im gonna miss the sale ugh

 

[ibleedoranbla]

hey im thinking of doing your proposed cycle, but 2 questions.

How will the gains/pumps/dry look compare from say using prop to using sarms?

Does this website ship to canada? cant find info on that site about that anywhere

sorry for the questions just becoming interested in sarms

edit: just saw they ship worldwide, alright ill most likely look into them, but i dont get paid till thursday so im gonna miss the sale ugh

S4 gives you amazing hardness and dryness. It's my favorite sarm. LGD will give you amazing fullness and pumps. S4 and LGD is my all time favorite stack.

No worries about shipping to Canada. That's really unfortunate that you'll miss the sale bit there are some more big sales coming up really soon.

 

[Almighty100%bodyfat]

Brotha, I came to this forum with a solid foundation. Everyone already thought I have used AAS, but I'm STILL natty. I'm turning 27 next week and I've gained amazing size with a good nutrition plan and hard hard work. Don't rush into this. I just ordered my very first SARMS stack about 20 minutes ago. I don't feel the need to take AAS just yet. Eventually I will but the SARMS are going to be my go-to for a while. You make your own choices and we're all here to help you. If you need any nutritional help or specific workout programs, never be afraid to ask. Don't rush into the WRONG first cycle. You have years ahead of you to gain naturally or even on SARMS.