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Performance enhancement questions

Chicken Shakes said:
One thing you should do before you do anything SARMS or otherwise is go to your Dr and get a complete blood lab panel done. This is crucial. You need to check thyroid,test levels, and everything else. If your Dr ask why just tell him because you want an established baseline to work off of as you age.
Firstly, if anything red flag shows up you can maybe fix it before you start introducing chems into your body. Say for instance your cholestrol is outta whack. You would want to see if you can fix it.
Or you may be hypogonadal and if you are that would be something you handle before you do anything else.

Second, you would do follow up labs after your SARMS to make sure ev erything returned to normal.

Also 3 days a week workout is fine. Your not old but you are 48 and the rest and recovery stretch would be needed for your joints and ligaments. I do 3 days, a Pull,Legs,Push routine with cardio on the off days. When I m feeling good I may squeeze in a 4 th day and compress the schedule a bit. It works well as long as you bring in the intensity and train hard. You are still hitting all your muscles at least once a week.
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well said man... i very much agree with this...

a lot of times its the quality, not the quantity... its all goal dependent as well
 
Hostile said:
I do get my blood work done twice yearly because of my borderline sugar issues and and I have hbp but it is very controlled,,127/66 the other day but after talking to a trainer the other day he suggested that I get everything checked as an addition so I will.. I love to workout and I do a full body workout every time and when I do I go at it in beast mode because once I get started and I see the pump I get really motivated. Because of my tendonitis I feel the aches and pains of lifting a bit more but while I am lifting I feel awesome! Yes I did say I wanted to see results faster but I understand it takes time but when I see myself lifting in the mirror by the dumbbell racks and see all the muscle definition and the swell I get excited,,,shows me what I am shooting for permanently.
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you have an excellent mind set brother and your on the right track for sure.. im going to be here every step of the way to ensure you not only achieve your goals but surpass them... the good thing is when you do start sarms, they have healing benefits and a lot of these nagging injuries will be relieved... don't hesitate to let me know if you need any help or have any questions...
 
Also I should mention that I am on a test supplement,,M Stack,,after trying T plus,,or T6,can't remember the name right this minute,,and just starting to try a creative supplement as well,,so that's everything in a nutshell.
 
SpikedEggnog said:
correct you dont "need" 5 days a week but for the results this guy is looking for you do. you can workout once a week but its obviously relative to how much progress you make.

i could see how fully body could be more taxing, but its all relative to the person to be honest. most people dont workout that hard. and there is a reason for a split rest/glycogen replenisment between body parts - full body is not efficient for bodybuilding. for relative health or powerlifting maybe, but not bodybuilding. its more about quantity then quality. i could see it ok for maintaining muscle but not for making steady gains. this guy says he wants results and wants them faster, and if you want drastic results you need to workout at least 5 days a week, you have to put the work in..
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I got to disagree, are we talking about the AAS fueled Bodybuilding freaks of Today or we talking about the Aestitic bodybuilders of the past? There are way too many studies that show that the Bro Split is the most inneficient way of producing muscle with shit tons of AAS its very efficient. All the classic body builders did full body routines. Science and studies repeatedly show over and over that a full body routine produces more growth. Quite frankly and I don't mean to be rude when I say this, its not even debatable anymore.
 
21infantry said:
I got to disagree, are we talking about the AAS fueled Bodybuilding freaks of Today or we talking about the Aestitic bodybuilders of the past? There are way too many studies that show that the Bro Split is the most inneficient way of producing muscle with shit tons of AAS its very efficient. All the classic body builders did full body routines. Science and studies repeatedly show over and over that a full body routine produces more growth. Quite frankly and I don't mean to be rude when I say this, its not even debatable anymore.
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Bro while you have good points on your end about this, for you to say its not debatable is far past absurd... Ive been a personal trainer nearly 15 years now... Ive used and and implemented every type of training in existence and i guarantee its a never ending debate because there is no right or wrong answer... Some dont respond whatsoever to full body training... Not at all... Theres also some who live by it but every person has different responses to methods of stimulus... For you to say "not debatable" is far past wrong... I could debate BOTH sides 24hrs a day but its a waste of time on a question that has no direct answer to it...
 
21infantry said:
I got to disagree, are we talking about the AAS fueled Bodybuilding freaks of Today or we talking about the Aestitic bodybuilders of the past? There are way too many studies that show that the Bro Split is the most inneficient way of producing muscle with shit tons of AAS its very efficient. All the classic body builders did full body routines. Science and studies repeatedly show over and over that a full body routine produces more growth. Quite frankly and I don't mean to be rude when I say this, its not even debatable anymore.
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Not to mean any disrespect, but seriously dude? Come on. You have to be much smarter than that. What works well for one person may not for another and vice versa. You cannot put out a blanket statement that X routine produces more growth than Y. You know what the best program is? The one that works for YOU. For example, I cannot and will not do any type of high volume work. I go nowhere with it and spin my wheels. It's a complete waste of time for ME, while it might be great for someone else. What works best for me is very low volume high intensity training. 3 training days per week at an hour a piece....that's it and I'm done. And yes this is coming from someone that does a two way split, upper and lower body. I grow like a MF on that and get strong as an ox. But am I saying it's the best, and what everyone should do? Hell no! I'm saying it's the best for ME, and it also happens to work wonders for many others, and that's why it's so popular. I just can't let that go to see someone say things like this. It's totally uncalled for and not warranted in any way. I know you mean well, and are just trying to offer your side but the way you stated things like it was your way or the highway is far off base from reality.
 
DylanGemelli said:
Bro while you have good points on your end about this, for you to say its not debatable is far past absurd... Ive been a personal trainer nearly 15 years now... Ive used and and implemented every type of training in existence and i guarantee its a never ending debate because there is no right or wrong answer... Some dont respond whatsoever to full body training... Not at all... Theres also some who live by it but every person has different responses to methods of stimulus... For you to say "not debatable" is far past wrong... I could debate BOTH sides 24hrs a day but its a waste of time on a question that has no direct answer to it...
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Dylan, some things are just the way they are. I understand where you guys are coming from I really do. But its almost concensus across the board by actual testing, research etc etc that full body training is superior for muscle growth. There are actual logs after logs of data that supports this. Merk has actually did countless studies on this and has a whole division dedicated to Chemical Engineering and growth of cells. Part of the process is to introduce different stimulus to the Human Body of over 1000 test subjects not one repeat not one had more growth doing the classic bro split.
RickRock said:
Not to mean any disrespect, but seriously dude? Come on. You have to be much smarter than that. What works well for one person may not for another and vice versa. You cannot put out a blanket statement that X routine produces more growth than Y. You know what the best program is? The one that works for YOU. For example, I cannot and will not do any type of high volume work. I go nowhere with it and spin my wheels. It's a complete waste of time for ME, while it might be great for someone else. What works best for me is very low volume high intensity training. 3 training days per week at an hour a piece....that's it and I'm done. And yes this is coming from someone that does a two way split, upper and lower body. I grow like a MF on that and get strong as an ox. But am I saying it's the best, and what everyone should do? Hell no! I'm saying it's the best for ME, and it also happens to work wonders for many others, and that's why it's so popular. I just can't let that go to see someone say things like this. It's totally uncalled for and not warranted in any way. I know you mean well, and are just trying to offer your side but the way you stated things like it was your way or the highway is far off base from reality.
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As I replied to Dylan I go buy clinical research that I have the privilege to know first hand. Clinical studies show this to be true.
 
21infantry said:
Dylan, some things are just the way they are. I understand where you guys are coming from I really do. But its almost concensus across the board by actual testing, research etc etc that full body training is superior for muscle growth. There are actual logs after logs of data that supports this. Merk has actually did countless studies on this and has a whole division dedicated to Chemical Engineering and growth of cells. Part of the process is to introduce different stimulus to the Human Body of over 1000 test subjects not one repeat not one had more growth doing the classic bro split.

As I replied to Dylan I go buy clinical research that I have the privilege to know first hand. Clinical studies show this to be true.
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Alright bro, we get what your position is. Your missing the point here. No fucks are given about these bullshit studies. Nobody cares. Studies are worthless and everybody here knows that. For every study there's 10 that says the opposite. Like Dylan said, you could sit here and debate this shit all day long. The only person saying there's one way better than anything is YOU....and there's probably a hundred people reading this laughing at you that knows damn well what works for them. You have found something that works for you....great. Keep doing it. But don't sit here and tell anyone else that what you are doing is what everybody else needs to be doing for optimal growth. Everybody is different and different strategies work best for some people. I know enough people that blow the fuck up on the typcual 5 day split. It's not for me, but Why the hell do you think so many people do it? Because it don't work? im not sure what part of this you don't get. You gave your opinion on what you think works so let it be. Not everybody is going to respond to full body splits favorably compared to a 5 day split or something else.
 
RickRock said:
Alright bro, we get what your position is. Your missing the point here. No fucks are given about these bullshit studies. Nobody cares. Studies are worthless and everybody here knows that. For every study there's 10 that says the opposite. Like Dylan said, you could sit here and debate this shit all day long. The only person saying there's one way better than anything is YOU....and there's probably a hundred people reading this laughing at you that knows damn well what works for them. You have found something that works for you....great. Keep doing it. But don't sit here and tell anyone else that what you are doing is what everybody else needs to be doing for optimal growth. Everybody is different and different strategies work best for some people. I know enough people that blow the fuck up on the typcual 5 day split. It's not for me, but Why the hell do you think so many people do it? Because it don't work? im not sure what part of this you don't get. You gave your opinion on what you think works so let it be. Not everybody is going to respond to full body splits favorably compared to a 5 day split or something else.
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Wow, just wow. I never resorted to name calling. Just stated my position that's all. I'm very surprised Rock, didn't expect that kind of repsonse from you. Not on this board at least. Maybe need re evaluate my time on here.
 
21infantry said:
Wow, just wow. I never resorted to name calling. Just stated my position that's all. I'm very surprised Rock, didn't expect that kind of repsonse from you. Not on this board at least. Maybe need re evaluate my time on here.
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Please direct me to where there was name calling bud? Im clueless to where you saw that. I did not call you anything. I'm not sure what's going on with you today but I hope you are alright man. You seem very defensive. We can just do without the bullying mentality, and it's not what we are about here.
 
Nah man your right, rereading your post. I don't think I'm bullying anybody or did I miss understand that as well. But yeah, I am suffering from anxiety tonight, is it that noticeable even over the internet?
 
21infantry said:
Nah man your right, rereading your post. I don't think I'm bullying anybody or did I miss understand that as well. But yeah, I am suffering from anxiety tonight, is it that noticeable even over the internet?
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Brother it's ok man. I probably got a little heated myself, and if I did I apologize for that. It's certainly not my intention in any way. We all have an off day, time to time. I could have said and handled things better too. You are still good with me brother, no worries at all. Lets just move on from this, and I think the point was made on both sides anyways.
 
21infantry said:
I got to disagree, are we talking about the AAS fueled Bodybuilding freaks of Today or we talking about the Aestitic bodybuilders of the past? There are way too many studies that show that the Bro Split is the most inneficient way of producing muscle with shit tons of AAS its very efficient. All the classic body builders did full body routines. Science and studies repeatedly show over and over that a full body routine produces more growth. Quite frankly and I don't mean to be rude when I say this, its not even debatable anymore.
Click to expand...

i dont really care much about todays BBers but some train similar to the 70s. the golden era would be a basic:

monday, chest back
tuesday shoulders bis tris
wednesday thighs calves
thursday chest back
friday shoulders bis tris
saturday thighs calves

now this is a typical 70s BBer routine training every body part twice a week with high volume. arnold did this frequently, hes well known for chest/back supersets.

do i like this routine? not for anyone who isnt an advanced BBer. and i dont like training biceps/triceps day after chest/back. i much prefer to do chest then give 2-3 days rest then do Tricep movements that activate chest as well, like dips or close grip bench, so the chest gets hit twice a week but so do the Tris.

but as far as the whole body routine, 3 days a week, i have never seen a single BBer utilize that routine. i am sure there is one out there BUT every singlehighly competitive BBer utilizes some form of a "split" so for you to say its undebatable doesnt make sense, it gets results.. I dont care about "studies" they have no real world credibility, i care about experience and what works. if you got big as mess doing full body then so be it BUT for the majority of the population the full body wont give the same results as a split. its like spreading butter too thin on toast. its just not enough stimulus, we are talking BBing here again NOT powerlifting or someone looking to stay fit, in which i think full body may be better suited.
 
RickRock said:
Not to mean any disrespect, but seriously dude? Come on. You have to be much smarter than that. What works well for one person may not for another and vice versa. You cannot put out a blanket statement that X routine produces more growth than Y. You know what the best program is? The one that works for YOU. For example, I cannot and will not do any type of high volume work. I go nowhere with it and spin my wheels. It's a complete waste of time for ME, while it might be great for someone else. What works best for me is very low volume high intensity training. 3 training days per week at an hour a piece....that's it and I'm done. And yes this is coming from someone that does a two way split, upper and lower body. I grow like a MF on that and get strong as an ox. But am I saying it's the best, and what everyone should do? Hell no! I'm saying it's the best for ME, and it also happens to work wonders for many others, and that's why it's so popular. I just can't let that go to see someone say things like this. It's totally uncalled for and not warranted in any way. I know you mean well, and are just trying to offer your side but the way you stated things like it was your way or the highway is far off base from reality.
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rick im interested in that routine you speak of. can you give me a layout of it so i can read over it?
 
SpikedEggnog said:
rick im interested in that routine you speak of. can you give me a layout of it so i can read over it?
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I do DC training, and there's quite a bit to go over. I will do a,writeup on it very soon, since so many people have shown interest in knowing more about it brother
 
rarely and i mean rarely do i get heated on something and i was on my way to church when i was reading this and it definitely calmed me down but here's the point so we all understand something... None of of us know everything and we all know that there is something new to learn every second of every day... Now, studies are excellent but we all know that studies are often flawed, intended for one side of the argument and often disproven by another etc... its a never ending process... to say or imply that only one method of training is superior to others and its not debatable is something i just cant sit back on and let go... im NOT trying to be a know it all and certainly not saying others can't express their thoughts whatsoever... i NEVER have a problem looking at every side of an argument and often times i admit where i was wrong or mistaken... however, i have been training all types from everyday individuals to professional bodybuilders since I was 20 years old... I've read cover to cover articles, studies, books, college courses taken but more than anything, have extensive HANDS ON work all this time.. throughout this time, the most important concept i have learned is SPECIFIC CUSTOMIZING of routines... EVERY person has a different response to an outside stimulus... what works for one DOES NOT necessarily work for the next... even if you pick up any bodybuilding magazine, in all honesty, you see far less full body workouts than ongoing splits... there is validity to both types of training but its also goal oriented... you can't do heavy volume training in a full body workout... the back alone needs A LOT of sight specificity to hit every angle of it and develop a full shaped back... if your training heavy volume with 15-20 rep sets and you want to hit every body part as you should from every angle, your workout would take 3 hours to do it right... that's overtraining big time in one session... now, different goals and workout types could absolutely fit into a full body workout but its person to person and goal specific... i guarantee a million percent its debatable on so many fronts...

its great to present a thought or experience and show what works for you and that's what its all about and i HIGHLY encourage that but to say its not debatable when so many people who are just learning are reading all of our posts, it gives a bad impression and false facts that could lead to misinterpretation... i LOVE the personal experiences being shared and 21infantry is a very very good dude, i know this as I have spoken with him many times etc... and noone is made at you bro in any way but even as you said, your having a rough day and its all good bro... no problem but i have to make this point and i hope you see where im coming from and DO NOT take it personally whatsoever.... however i see your side and even said i agreed there was validity in argument of that training method but trust me, its not the most mainstream amongst bodybuilders right now as you say... IM WITH THEM ON A DAILY BASIS, so i think that fills me on just a touch on what they are doing... there are some that absolutely DO use that training method but trust me, its not the most popular amongst them... its too hard to say which is the most popular because there is a lot of different methods and beliefs on this... everyone has to find what works best for them... thats what it all comes down to...
 
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