bannednutritionnapsgear eudomestic

newbie-vet cycles. pre planned.

gymrat827

Member
*****TEST IS USED ON ALL CYCLES>>>>>NOT ALWAYS MENTIONED IN HERE, BUT ONE SHOULD ALWAYS USE IT*****



Relatively moderate doses of gear can get you fairly large and somewhat above your natural maximum level of developement, or that level of muscular developement that can be held to with your own natural T production, but only IF you train, eat and sleep well.

For the average guy of average height 5'9-10", with average bone structure and with genetically typical recuperative powers that means about 190-195 lean pounds in body weight and a bench of 275-300 pounds, full squat of 375-400 pounds and about a 500 pound deadlift.

The further above your natural max the more gear you need to see continued progression. The increasing amounts of gear needed does NOT grow in proportion to your increase in body mass. For example, many men can get to 10 pounds above natural max with as little as 250mg of test per week........to gain 10% more weight above this number does NOT require just 10% more gear...it requires a fair bit more. So to get to say 30- or 40 pounds above your natural max requires a lot of gear.

So the amount of gear you need to use depends mostly on how close you are to your natural max, or how far above you are from your natural max.

*Larger doses done at a low body weight do make gains a little faster but it isn't worth the money and or sides in my opinion...and the "faster" isn't that much faster anyway.


FACTOIDS

250mg of test cyp provides over twice the weekly testosterone that a young man produces naturally..so for you guys that are not at your natural max you can gain well WITHOUT gear, if you know how to train without gear, or gain very well with low to moderate doses of steroids.

100mg of cyp provides about 70mg of pure testosterone(minus ester weight)

Testes produce between 4 and 8 mg of testosterone a day....that's only 28 to about 70mg a week!..so you can see why 250 of cyp/week(175mg of pure test) can bring you to a little above your natural max, which is actually a pretty impressive level of developement.


NOVICE CYCLES AND GEAR CHOICE...those men not yet at their natural max.

Best to take single roids when you start out, and preferably testosterone for two reasons#1. you don't need to stack to see good results and #2. it is a good idea to get a good grasp on how you react to the best single hormone out there...testosterone( in the gains department and sides department)

Any roid taken alone can produce decent results but only four are really worth your while in this regard....#1 Testosterone, #2. D-bol #3. Anadrol and #4 tren. Personally I don't like anadrol since a high mg dose is required in order to see best results and this means a lot of liver toxic 17aa compound is ingested.....although for the short cycle it is "okay".


CYCLE #1

Understanding that few want to take as little as 250 of test a week and most want to see gains as rapidly as possible I will then recommend 400-500mg of testosterone cypionate or enanthate per week for the newbie. DURATION 8-12 weeks with an equal time off.

**** Always have an estrogen blocker available like nolvadex at 20mg/day or at least clomid at 50mg/day...nolva works better though

You get the most even blood level by injecting these esters twice a week....so 200-250mg twice a week will be more than enough.

SHORT CYCLE OPTION 4-6 weeks but with test prop at 100mg every other day....lots of shots though.

PLEASE see my post on "Keeping GAINS from Steroids" for info on post cycle therapy and how to keep your gains from a cycle.
.
PLEASE see my post on SHORT CYCLES for info on how to do short cycles properly.

ALSO..test is test bro's... test sust is fine too although too expensive compaired with cyp and enanthate.

CYCLE OPTION #2.

D-bol only at 30mg/day in 4 divided dose and one just before bed.
The only roid that is better than test IN THE SHORT RUN is d-bol...a truly UNREAL steroid and a favorite for over 40 years. D-bol was discovered way back in 1956 and quickly became a favorite of the pro's. D-bol only cycles work VERY WELL so don't let anyone BS you about them. They have been done by many over the last 45 years.

Nolva on hand.

* limit time "on' d-bol to 6 weeks as it is 17aa and can be hard on the liver.

MYTH:..some say that the gains from d-bol do not last...this is BS....the truth is the gains IN WATER from d-bol don't last so it SEEMS lilke the muscle gains don't last. Any steroid taken at bodybuilding doses, even at newbie doses, is going to shut down HPTA all the way so you can see that this "loss of muscular gains" ideation makes no sence.

NOTE: There is one steroid that is quite mild androgenically but seems to result in delayed HPTA recovery IN SOME(not me btw) and it is not d-bol...it is nandrolone, commonly used in the deconate ester(deca) We don't understand why some bro's have a little trouble recuperating from this roid but it is a fact non the less.

CYCLE #3.

test cyp or enanthate at 400-500mg/week for 8-12 weeks AND d-bol 30mg/day in divided dose for the first 4 weeks. This is a powerful combo indeed. The d-bol really gets things moving in a hurry.
Trouble with this stack is that you are going to experience a good deal of water retention and"bloat". An estrogen inhibitor like arimidex at .5-1mg/day might be a good idea....but now it is getting overly complicated for many novices.

Short cycle option....test prop 100mg every other day and d-bol 30mg/day for 4-6 weeks.

Have nolva on hand for sure! Estrogen inhibitors DO NOT work well for gyno protection...USE an estrogen blocker like nolva.

CYCLE #4 for the "gutsy" newbie

test at 400mg/week and tren a 75mg every other day. Really good stack but it requires a lot of injecting so you better get your research done in this regard. Can do it shot the short cycle too.

CYCLE #5.

A classic again...test/deca at 250mg each for 8-12 weeks

CYCLE #6

yet another proven winner...deca at 400mg/week for 10 weeks and d-bol 30mg/day for 4 weeks....really nice synergistic combo here.

After each cycle take at least an equal time "off" from gear to allow your system to fully normalize.


SIGNS OF GYNO
Every day in the shower rub your nipples with a soapy hand...if they are getting sore or ichy then hop on the nolva right away.
In reality it is almost(almost guys) impossble to get gyno unless you take aromatizing gear( those that convert to estrogen) like test, d-bol, deca and the like.

OTHER CYCLE OPTIONS FOR THE NOVICE

Sure you can use other roids ...but they are not your best choices but then again that depends on your goals. If you are looking for less in the way of gains then go ahead and try them.......just don't expect to NOT be shut down by them.

ie: Anavar alone at 30-50mg/day individed dose for 4- 6 weeks..it's 17aa too

Winstrol at 50mg/day IM or orally. IM is better....for 4-6 weeks...it's 17aa

A word on 17aa roids

Done at modest dose and modest time as above then 17aa roids are not that hard on the liver. You should limit time on a 17aa roid to 4-6 weeks though just to be extra safe.

Primo, if you can find the "real macoy"...ity's usually fakes as deca. try 600mg/week

EQ at 400-600mg/week

deca at 400mg/week

A word or two on deca....deca has beengiven a "bad rap" of late....some really bash this excellent anabolic. They say is it converts to progesterone, gives you gyno, kills your libido, and it's hard to recover from.....WELL>>>here are the real fact on deca

#1. deca DOES NOT convert to progesterone....it a progestin and activates the PR more so than most roids.
#2. It almost never causes gyno at moderate dose.
#3. Some guys have a hard time recovering from deca. We don't know why this is really but many guys do not have a hard time recovering from deca...me and most of my clients included.
#4. Yes it can affect libido since it doesn't provide the needed androgen BUT it almost never does at 400mg/week....and if it does then as little as 100mg of test/week will cure that.

All in all it's an excellent roid and will be just fine for a first cycle and as I said ...if your sex drive drops then add a little test to the mix or proviron.



tren alone at 50-75mg every other day is your best bet of the above, if you can accept frequent injections...they are not bad bro's.

A WORD ON tren
Some say that this roid is too harsh for a newbie but these same guys often recommend a test/d-bol stack which is harsher IMHO and done without an estrogen inhibitor the bloat can get pretty uncomfortable.
Sure it's a strong androgen but doing tren alone is no worse than doing a half decent dose of test alone....it won't give you the gains of test alone but it isn't any harsher.
AND BTW...the tren and kidney toxicity thing is another myth. I have done as much as 100 of tren/day for 10 weeks straight with no elevation in kidney panel levels.


INTERMEDIATE CYCLES...for those that are at or close to natural max.

Same cycles but higher doses if you like.

Also, it is best to inject test prop and tren DAILY...so now that you have some good experience do just that for best gains.

ULTIMATE INTERMEDIATE CYCLE
test at 400-750mg/week(or less) and tren at 75mg/day...UNREAL STACK and simply the best there is. This is all that the intermediate needs!

******** In fact dare I say that you can accomplish ANY goal as a bodybuilder with just these two roids(along with growth and slin as you hit the national level)


ADVANCED CYCLES...for those above their natural max.

I a not going to recommend much for you advanced bro's as you know what is best for you already.

As you know once you get really big and truly "advanced" it gets tricky as you need more and more gear the further you get from your natural max.

To get FREAKY big like a top national level competitor or pro you need LARGE doses of gear, as well as growth and perhpas slin. You also need to be "on" a long time.

You really need to fully understand HCG use at this level since you are usually"on' for longer periods of time.

The pro's take up 2-4 grams of test a week!!!! along with other gear, growth and slin. NOT HEALTHY if I do say myself...but this is their job.

You can still get pretty F-ing big with somewhat moderate doses IF you have "all your ducks in a row"...training, eating, rest, sleep, stress outside the gym etc. Quadsweep from Elite is a national level man and his cycles are quite modest and he is just starting to use growth.

I got to a leanish 245 at 5'10" with a bench of 430, deep bodybulider style squat of near 700 pounds and almost 800 in the deadlift... with modest amounts of gear and never more than a gram of test a week.

NOTE: I did not feel healthy at that size and using big doses of gear and I don't recommend one try to get really huge unless you intend to make your living as a pro or want to see what you can accomplish at the national level at least.

My all time favorite stack is a simple one, but also the best IMHO, and that is test at a gram/week plus tren at 75mg/day with 1mg of arimidex/day.

I have used more gear in another favorite of deca/primo/test and growth but I think mg/mg you cannot beat test/tren.

All time favorite short cycle, advanced, is 50 of d-bol/day and 75 of tren/day and 100 of prop a day with 1mg of arimidex/day for 4-6 weeks.

For pre contest cutting the last few weeks before a show I have done very well with tren at 75mg/day and a small dose of prop.

A WORD ABOUT GH
Growth has been used by bodybuilders since the 70's. The old growth was from cadavers and was called Crescormin.
I don't think growth does a great deal but it does help a bit but some guys have more success with growth. It is usally taken at about .3ius per pound of body weight per week.
The stuff is expensive to so you don't get much bang for the buck.


SLIN
Can be good at about 1iu for every 20 pounds of body weight. Use the rapid acting slin(humulin R) and do it after a workout and after a workout shake.
Watch for the signs of hypoglycemia ...fatigue, feeling cold, jittery, hungry, dizzy, sleepy weakness. Watch for these signs for 6-8 hours after taking the shot...and EAT during this time for sure, especially lots of carbs.
If you don't know what you are doing with slin it CAN kill you.



DO NOT FUK WITH SLIN UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING*****that is all thats needs to be said about it. be responsibile if it is your 1st time, very responsibile.
 

cmb5017

Active member
Member
My advice to any newbie would be do an all test cycle the first few cycles.there are several esters of test, test E test cyp, sustanon and so forth. I'd advise running a cycle with each ester. No orals. Keep a journal and record everything. .this will teach you which ester will yeild you the best results with the minimum side effects. This is vital information. .I so wished I was given this advice when I started..I had to make alot of mistakes and learn the hard way...me for example, I no longer use test E. The water retention and acne are ruthless on my body..had I started out on E at 700 mg per week id would have been fucked..like he said 250 mg per week to start is more than fine. Once u learn which esters work good for your body then your ready to up the dose and start stacking. Dont try to start off at the top. Start slow and work your way up. You will thank me if u do!
 

RickRock

Community Leader
VIP Moderator
A lot of great information Gymrat. There's something in here to benefit everyone. Obviously some like me, never have plans to use some of the more advanced heavy stuff, but it helps to have an understanding of how to cycle correctly, for whatever level you are at
 

DylanGemelli

Founding Member
Super Moderator
gymrat827 said:
*****TEST IS USED ON ALL CYCLES>>>>>NOT ALWAYS MENTIONED IN HERE, BUT ONE SHOULD ALWAYS USE IT*****



Relatively moderate doses of gear can get you fairly large and somewhat above your natural maximum level of developement, or that level of muscular developement that can be held to with your own natural T production, but only IF you train, eat and sleep well.

For the average guy of average height 5'9-10", with average bone structure and with genetically typical recuperative powers that means about 190-195 lean pounds in body weight and a bench of 275-300 pounds, full squat of 375-400 pounds and about a 500 pound deadlift.

The further above your natural max the more gear you need to see continued progression. The increasing amounts of gear needed does NOT grow in proportion to your increase in body mass. For example, many men can get to 10 pounds above natural max with as little as 250mg of test per week........to gain 10% more weight above this number does NOT require just 10% more gear...it requires a fair bit more. So to get to say 30- or 40 pounds above your natural max requires a lot of gear.

So the amount of gear you need to use depends mostly on how close you are to your natural max, or how far above you are from your natural max.

*Larger doses done at a low body weight do make gains a little faster but it isn't worth the money and or sides in my opinion...and the "faster" isn't that much faster anyway.


FACTOIDS

250mg of test cyp provides over twice the weekly testosterone that a young man produces naturally..so for you guys that are not at your natural max you can gain well WITHOUT gear, if you know how to train without gear, or gain very well with low to moderate doses of steroids.

100mg of cyp provides about 70mg of pure testosterone(minus ester weight)

Testes produce between 4 and 8 mg of testosterone a day....that's only 28 to about 70mg a week!..so you can see why 250 of cyp/week(175mg of pure test) can bring you to a little above your natural max, which is actually a pretty impressive level of developement.


NOVICE CYCLES AND GEAR CHOICE...those men not yet at their natural max.

Best to take single roids when you start out, and preferably testosterone for two reasons#1. you don't need to stack to see good results and #2. it is a good idea to get a good grasp on how you react to the best single hormone out there...testosterone( in the gains department and sides department)

Any roid taken alone can produce decent results but only four are really worth your while in this regard....#1 Testosterone, #2. D-bol #3. Anadrol and #4 tren. Personally I don't like anadrol since a high mg dose is required in order to see best results and this means a lot of liver toxic 17aa compound is ingested.....although for the short cycle it is "okay".


CYCLE #1

Understanding that few want to take as little as 250 of test a week and most want to see gains as rapidly as possible I will then recommend 400-500mg of testosterone cypionate or enanthate per week for the newbie. DURATION 8-12 weeks with an equal time off.

**** Always have an estrogen blocker available like nolvadex at 20mg/day or at least clomid at 50mg/day...nolva works better though

You get the most even blood level by injecting these esters twice a week....so 200-250mg twice a week will be more than enough.

SHORT CYCLE OPTION 4-6 weeks but with test prop at 100mg every other day....lots of shots though.

PLEASE see my post on "Keeping GAINS from Steroids" for info on post cycle therapy and how to keep your gains from a cycle.
.
PLEASE see my post on SHORT CYCLES for info on how to do short cycles properly.

ALSO..test is test bro's... test sust is fine too although too expensive compaired with cyp and enanthate.

CYCLE OPTION #2.

D-bol only at 30mg/day in 4 divided dose and one just before bed.
The only roid that is better than test IN THE SHORT RUN is d-bol...a truly UNREAL steroid and a favorite for over 40 years. D-bol was discovered way back in 1956 and quickly became a favorite of the pro's. D-bol only cycles work VERY WELL so don't let anyone BS you about them. They have been done by many over the last 45 years.

Nolva on hand.

* limit time "on' d-bol to 6 weeks as it is 17aa and can be hard on the liver.

MYTH:..some say that the gains from d-bol do not last...this is BS....the truth is the gains IN WATER from d-bol don't last so it SEEMS lilke the muscle gains don't last. Any steroid taken at bodybuilding doses, even at newbie doses, is going to shut down HPTA all the way so you can see that this "loss of muscular gains" ideation makes no sence.

NOTE: There is one steroid that is quite mild androgenically but seems to result in delayed HPTA recovery IN SOME(not me btw) and it is not d-bol...it is nandrolone, commonly used in the deconate ester(deca) We don't understand why some bro's have a little trouble recuperating from this roid but it is a fact non the less.

CYCLE #3.

test cyp or enanthate at 400-500mg/week for 8-12 weeks AND d-bol 30mg/day in divided dose for the first 4 weeks. This is a powerful combo indeed. The d-bol really gets things moving in a hurry.
Trouble with this stack is that you are going to experience a good deal of water retention and"bloat". An estrogen inhibitor like arimidex at .5-1mg/day might be a good idea....but now it is getting overly complicated for many novices.

Short cycle option....test prop 100mg every other day and d-bol 30mg/day for 4-6 weeks.

Have nolva on hand for sure! Estrogen inhibitors DO NOT work well for gyno protection...USE an estrogen blocker like nolva.

CYCLE #4 for the "gutsy" newbie

test at 400mg/week and tren a 75mg every other day. Really good stack but it requires a lot of injecting so you better get your research done in this regard. Can do it shot the short cycle too.

CYCLE #5.

A classic again...test/deca at 250mg each for 8-12 weeks

CYCLE #6

yet another proven winner...deca at 400mg/week for 10 weeks and d-bol 30mg/day for 4 weeks....really nice synergistic combo here.

After each cycle take at least an equal time "off" from gear to allow your system to fully normalize.


SIGNS OF GYNO
Every day in the shower rub your nipples with a soapy hand...if they are getting sore or ichy then hop on the nolva right away.
In reality it is almost(almost guys) impossble to get gyno unless you take aromatizing gear( those that convert to estrogen) like test, d-bol, deca and the like.

OTHER CYCLE OPTIONS FOR THE NOVICE

Sure you can use other roids ...but they are not your best choices but then again that depends on your goals. If you are looking for less in the way of gains then go ahead and try them.......just don't expect to NOT be shut down by them.

ie: Anavar alone at 30-50mg/day individed dose for 4- 6 weeks..it's 17aa too

Winstrol at 50mg/day IM or orally. IM is better....for 4-6 weeks...it's 17aa

A word on 17aa roids

Done at modest dose and modest time as above then 17aa roids are not that hard on the liver. You should limit time on a 17aa roid to 4-6 weeks though just to be extra safe.

Primo, if you can find the "real macoy"...ity's usually fakes as deca. try 600mg/week

EQ at 400-600mg/week

deca at 400mg/week

A word or two on deca....deca has beengiven a "bad rap" of late....some really bash this excellent anabolic. They say is it converts to progesterone, gives you gyno, kills your libido, and it's hard to recover from.....WELL>>>here are the real fact on deca

#1. deca DOES NOT convert to progesterone....it a progestin and activates the PR more so than most roids.
#2. It almost never causes gyno at moderate dose.
#3. Some guys have a hard time recovering from deca. We don't know why this is really but many guys do not have a hard time recovering from deca...me and most of my clients included.
#4. Yes it can affect libido since it doesn't provide the needed androgen BUT it almost never does at 400mg/week....and if it does then as little as 100mg of test/week will cure that.

All in all it's an excellent roid and will be just fine for a first cycle and as I said ...if your sex drive drops then add a little test to the mix or proviron.



tren alone at 50-75mg every other day is your best bet of the above, if you can accept frequent injections...they are not bad bro's.

A WORD ON tren
Some say that this roid is too harsh for a newbie but these same guys often recommend a test/d-bol stack which is harsher IMHO and done without an estrogen inhibitor the bloat can get pretty uncomfortable.
Sure it's a strong androgen but doing tren alone is no worse than doing a half decent dose of test alone....it won't give you the gains of test alone but it isn't any harsher.
AND BTW...the tren and kidney toxicity thing is another myth. I have done as much as 100 of tren/day for 10 weeks straight with no elevation in kidney panel levels.


INTERMEDIATE CYCLES...for those that are at or close to natural max.

Same cycles but higher doses if you like.

Also, it is best to inject test prop and tren DAILY...so now that you have some good experience do just that for best gains.

ULTIMATE INTERMEDIATE CYCLE
test at 400-750mg/week(or less) and tren at 75mg/day...UNREAL STACK and simply the best there is. This is all that the intermediate needs!

******** In fact dare I say that you can accomplish ANY goal as a bodybuilder with just these two roids(along with growth and slin as you hit the national level)


ADVANCED CYCLES...for those above their natural max.

I a not going to recommend much for you advanced bro's as you know what is best for you already.

As you know once you get really big and truly "advanced" it gets tricky as you need more and more gear the further you get from your natural max.

To get FREAKY big like a top national level competitor or pro you need LARGE doses of gear, as well as growth and perhpas slin. You also need to be "on" a long time.

You really need to fully understand HCG use at this level since you are usually"on' for longer periods of time.

The pro's take up 2-4 grams of test a week!!!! along with other gear, growth and slin. NOT HEALTHY if I do say myself...but this is their job.

You can still get pretty F-ing big with somewhat moderate doses IF you have "all your ducks in a row"...training, eating, rest, sleep, stress outside the gym etc. Quadsweep from Elite is a national level man and his cycles are quite modest and he is just starting to use growth.

I got to a leanish 245 at 5'10" with a bench of 430, deep bodybulider style squat of near 700 pounds and almost 800 in the deadlift... with modest amounts of gear and never more than a gram of test a week.

NOTE: I did not feel healthy at that size and using big doses of gear and I don't recommend one try to get really huge unless you intend to make your living as a pro or want to see what you can accomplish at the national level at least.

My all time favorite stack is a simple one, but also the best IMHO, and that is test at a gram/week plus tren at 75mg/day with 1mg of arimidex/day.

I have used more gear in another favorite of deca/primo/test and growth but I think mg/mg you cannot beat test/tren.

All time favorite short cycle, advanced, is 50 of d-bol/day and 75 of tren/day and 100 of prop a day with 1mg of arimidex/day for 4-6 weeks.

For pre contest cutting the last few weeks before a show I have done very well with tren at 75mg/day and a small dose of prop.

A WORD ABOUT GH
Growth has been used by bodybuilders since the 70's. The old growth was from cadavers and was called Crescormin.
I don't think growth does a great deal but it does help a bit but some guys have more success with growth. It is usally taken at about .3ius per pound of body weight per week.
The stuff is expensive to so you don't get much bang for the buck.


SLIN
Can be good at about 1iu for every 20 pounds of body weight. Use the rapid acting slin(humulin R) and do it after a workout and after a workout shake.
Watch for the signs of hypoglycemia ...fatigue, feeling cold, jittery, hungry, dizzy, sleepy weakness. Watch for these signs for 6-8 hours after taking the shot...and EAT during this time for sure, especially lots of carbs.
If you don't know what you are doing with slin it CAN kill you.



DO NOT FUK WITH SLIN UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING*****that is all thats needs to be said about it. be responsibile if it is your 1st time, very responsibile.


AWESOME read brother and very spot on in so many ways... i love the details and the understanding provided... i think the first sentence says it all...

"Relatively moderate doses of gear can get you fairly large and somewhat above your natural maximum level of developement, or that level of muscular developement that can be held to with your own natural T production, but only IF you train, eat and sleep well."

i really wish more people grasped this concept it and followed the protocol...
 

DylanGemelli

Founding Member
Super Moderator
cmb5017 said:
My advice to any newbie would be do an all test cycle the first few cycles.there are several esters of test, test E test cyp, sustanon and so forth. I'd advise running a cycle with each ester. No orals. Keep a journal and record everything. .this will teach you which ester will yeild you the best results with the minimum side effects. This is vital information. .I so wished I was given this advice when I started..I had to make alot of mistakes and learn the hard way...me for example, I no longer use test E. The water retention and acne are ruthless on my body..had I started out on E at 700 mg per week id would have been fucked..like he said 250 mg per week to start is more than fine. Once u learn which esters work good for your body then your ready to up the dose and start stacking. Dont try to start off at the top. Start slow and work your way up. You will thank me if u do!


i agree brother... too many guys want to run the world the first time out... you BUILD to that... you don't start at the top of the mountain, you work your way up... you introduce your body to new things slowly and let your body learn and see the reactions... that's how you do trial and error and that's how you learn YOUR specific body reaction...
 

gymrat827

Member
the only thing im big on is that you dont run something ahead of what your knowledge base is.

you cant go from cycle 2 to cycle 6. there is a lot of learning between them and that time is so valuable its not even funny. We all have stepping stones and have to follow them in life, this is no different.
 
gymrat827 said:
*****TEST IS USED ON ALL CYCLES>>>>>NOT ALWAYS MENTIONED IN HERE, BUT ONE SHOULD ALWAYS USE IT*****



Relatively moderate doses of gear can get you fairly large and somewhat above your natural maximum level of developement, or that level of muscular developement that can be held to with your own natural T production, but only IF you train, eat and sleep well.

For the average guy of average height 5'9-10", with average bone structure and with genetically typical recuperative powers that means about 190-195 lean pounds in body weight and a bench of 275-300 pounds, full squat of 375-400 pounds and about a 500 pound deadlift.

The further above your natural max the more gear you need to see continued progression. The increasing amounts of gear needed does NOT grow in proportion to your increase in body mass. For example, many men can get to 10 pounds above natural max with as little as 250mg of test per week........to gain 10% more weight above this number does NOT require just 10% more gear...it requires a fair bit more. So to get to say 30- or 40 pounds above your natural max requires a lot of gear.

So the amount of gear you need to use depends mostly on how close you are to your natural max, or how far above you are from your natural max.

*Larger doses done at a low body weight do make gains a little faster but it isn't worth the money and or sides in my opinion...and the "faster" isn't that much faster anyway.


FACTOIDS

250mg of test cyp provides over twice the weekly testosterone that a young man produces naturally..so for you guys that are not at your natural max you can gain well WITHOUT gear, if you know how to train without gear, or gain very well with low to moderate doses of steroids.

100mg of cyp provides about 70mg of pure testosterone(minus ester weight)

Testes produce between 4 and 8 mg of testosterone a day....that's only 28 to about 70mg a week!..so you can see why 250 of cyp/week(175mg of pure test) can bring you to a little above your natural max, which is actually a pretty impressive level of developement.


NOVICE CYCLES AND GEAR CHOICE...those men not yet at their natural max.

Best to take single roids when you start out, and preferably testosterone for two reasons#1. you don't need to stack to see good results and #2. it is a good idea to get a good grasp on how you react to the best single hormone out there...testosterone( in the gains department and sides department)

Any roid taken alone can produce decent results but only four are really worth your while in this regard....#1 Testosterone, #2. D-bol #3. Anadrol and #4 tren. Personally I don't like anadrol since a high mg dose is required in order to see best results and this means a lot of liver toxic 17aa compound is ingested.....although for the short cycle it is "okay".


CYCLE #1

Understanding that few want to take as little as 250 of test a week and most want to see gains as rapidly as possible I will then recommend 400-500mg of testosterone cypionate or enanthate per week for the newbie. DURATION 8-12 weeks with an equal time off.

**** Always have an estrogen blocker available like nolvadex at 20mg/day or at least clomid at 50mg/day...nolva works better though

You get the most even blood level by injecting these esters twice a week....so 200-250mg twice a week will be more than enough.

SHORT CYCLE OPTION 4-6 weeks but with test prop at 100mg every other day....lots of shots though.

PLEASE see my post on "Keeping GAINS from Steroids" for info on post cycle therapy and how to keep your gains from a cycle.
.
PLEASE see my post on SHORT CYCLES for info on how to do short cycles properly.

ALSO..test is test bro's... test sust is fine too although too expensive compaired with cyp and enanthate.

CYCLE OPTION #2.

D-bol only at 30mg/day in 4 divided dose and one just before bed.
The only roid that is better than test IN THE SHORT RUN is d-bol...a truly UNREAL steroid and a favorite for over 40 years. D-bol was discovered way back in 1956 and quickly became a favorite of the pro's. D-bol only cycles work VERY WELL so don't let anyone BS you about them. They have been done by many over the last 45 years.

Nolva on hand.

* limit time "on' d-bol to 6 weeks as it is 17aa and can be hard on the liver.

MYTH:..some say that the gains from d-bol do not last...this is BS....the truth is the gains IN WATER from d-bol don't last so it SEEMS lilke the muscle gains don't last. Any steroid taken at bodybuilding doses, even at newbie doses, is going to shut down HPTA all the way so you can see that this "loss of muscular gains" ideation makes no sence.

NOTE: There is one steroid that is quite mild androgenically but seems to result in delayed HPTA recovery IN SOME(not me btw) and it is not d-bol...it is nandrolone, commonly used in the deconate ester(deca) We don't understand why some bro's have a little trouble recuperating from this roid but it is a fact non the less.

CYCLE #3.

test cyp or enanthate at 400-500mg/week for 8-12 weeks AND d-bol 30mg/day in divided dose for the first 4 weeks. This is a powerful combo indeed. The d-bol really gets things moving in a hurry.
Trouble with this stack is that you are going to experience a good deal of water retention and"bloat". An estrogen inhibitor like arimidex at .5-1mg/day might be a good idea....but now it is getting overly complicated for many novices.

Short cycle option....test prop 100mg every other day and d-bol 30mg/day for 4-6 weeks.

Have nolva on hand for sure! Estrogen inhibitors DO NOT work well for gyno protection...USE an estrogen blocker like nolva.

CYCLE #4 for the "gutsy" newbie

test at 400mg/week and tren a 75mg every other day. Really good stack but it requires a lot of injecting so you better get your research done in this regard. Can do it shot the short cycle too.

CYCLE #5.

A classic again...test/deca at 250mg each for 8-12 weeks

CYCLE #6

yet another proven winner...deca at 400mg/week for 10 weeks and d-bol 30mg/day for 4 weeks....really nice synergistic combo here.

After each cycle take at least an equal time "off" from gear to allow your system to fully normalize.


SIGNS OF GYNO
Every day in the shower rub your nipples with a soapy hand...if they are getting sore or ichy then hop on the nolva right away.
In reality it is almost(almost guys) impossble to get gyno unless you take aromatizing gear( those that convert to estrogen) like test, d-bol, deca and the like.

OTHER CYCLE OPTIONS FOR THE NOVICE

Sure you can use other roids ...but they are not your best choices but then again that depends on your goals. If you are looking for less in the way of gains then go ahead and try them.......just don't expect to NOT be shut down by them.

ie: Anavar alone at 30-50mg/day individed dose for 4- 6 weeks..it's 17aa too

Winstrol at 50mg/day IM or orally. IM is better....for 4-6 weeks...it's 17aa

A word on 17aa roids

Done at modest dose and modest time as above then 17aa roids are not that hard on the liver. You should limit time on a 17aa roid to 4-6 weeks though just to be extra safe.

Primo, if you can find the "real macoy"...ity's usually fakes as deca. try 600mg/week

EQ at 400-600mg/week

deca at 400mg/week

A word or two on deca....deca has beengiven a "bad rap" of late....some really bash this excellent anabolic. They say is it converts to progesterone, gives you gyno, kills your libido, and it's hard to recover from.....WELL>>>here are the real fact on deca

#1. deca DOES NOT convert to progesterone....it a progestin and activates the PR more so than most roids.
#2. It almost never causes gyno at moderate dose.
#3. Some guys have a hard time recovering from deca. We don't know why this is really but many guys do not have a hard time recovering from deca...me and most of my clients included.
#4. Yes it can affect libido since it doesn't provide the needed androgen BUT it almost never does at 400mg/week....and if it does then as little as 100mg of test/week will cure that.

All in all it's an excellent roid and will be just fine for a first cycle and as I said ...if your sex drive drops then add a little test to the mix or proviron.



tren alone at 50-75mg every other day is your best bet of the above, if you can accept frequent injections...they are not bad bro's.

A WORD ON tren
Some say that this roid is too harsh for a newbie but these same guys often recommend a test/d-bol stack which is harsher IMHO and done without an estrogen inhibitor the bloat can get pretty uncomfortable.
Sure it's a strong androgen but doing tren alone is no worse than doing a half decent dose of test alone....it won't give you the gains of test alone but it isn't any harsher.
AND BTW...the tren and kidney toxicity thing is another myth. I have done as much as 100 of tren/day for 10 weeks straight with no elevation in kidney panel levels.


INTERMEDIATE CYCLES...for those that are at or close to natural max.

Same cycles but higher doses if you like.

Also, it is best to inject test prop and tren DAILY...so now that you have some good experience do just that for best gains.

ULTIMATE INTERMEDIATE CYCLE
test at 400-750mg/week(or less) and tren at 75mg/day...UNREAL STACK and simply the best there is. This is all that the intermediate needs!

******** In fact dare I say that you can accomplish ANY goal as a bodybuilder with just these two roids(along with growth and slin as you hit the national level)


ADVANCED CYCLES...for those above their natural max.

I a not going to recommend much for you advanced bro's as you know what is best for you already.

As you know once you get really big and truly "advanced" it gets tricky as you need more and more gear the further you get from your natural max.

To get FREAKY big like a top national level competitor or pro you need LARGE doses of gear, as well as growth and perhpas slin. You also need to be "on" a long time.

You really need to fully understand HCG use at this level since you are usually"on' for longer periods of time.

The pro's take up 2-4 grams of test a week!!!! along with other gear, growth and slin. NOT HEALTHY if I do say myself...but this is their job.

You can still get pretty F-ing big with somewhat moderate doses IF you have "all your ducks in a row"...training, eating, rest, sleep, stress outside the gym etc. Quadsweep from Elite is a national level man and his cycles are quite modest and he is just starting to use growth.

I got to a leanish 245 at 5'10" with a bench of 430, deep bodybulider style squat of near 700 pounds and almost 800 in the deadlift... with modest amounts of gear and never more than a gram of test a week.

NOTE: I did not feel healthy at that size and using big doses of gear and I don't recommend one try to get really huge unless you intend to make your living as a pro or want to see what you can accomplish at the national level at least.

My all time favorite stack is a simple one, but also the best IMHO, and that is test at a gram/week plus tren at 75mg/day with 1mg of arimidex/day.

I have used more gear in another favorite of deca/primo/test and growth but I think mg/mg you cannot beat test/tren.

All time favorite short cycle, advanced, is 50 of d-bol/day and 75 of tren/day and 100 of prop a day with 1mg of arimidex/day for 4-6 weeks.

For pre contest cutting the last few weeks before a show I have done very well with tren at 75mg/day and a small dose of prop.

A WORD ABOUT GH
Growth has been used by bodybuilders since the 70's. The old growth was from cadavers and was called Crescormin.
I don't think growth does a great deal but it does help a bit but some guys have more success with growth. It is usally taken at about .3ius per pound of body weight per week.
The stuff is expensive to so you don't get much bang for the buck.


SLIN
Can be good at about 1iu for every 20 pounds of body weight. Use the rapid acting slin(humulin R) and do it after a workout and after a workout shake.
Watch for the signs of hypoglycemia ...fatigue, feeling cold, jittery, hungry, dizzy, sleepy weakness. Watch for these signs for 6-8 hours after taking the shot...and EAT during this time for sure, especially lots of carbs.
If you don't know what you are doing with slin it CAN kill you.



DO NOT FUK WITH SLIN UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING*****that is all thats needs to be said about it. be responsibile if it is your 1st time, very responsibile.

Awesome read right here brother! Especially to new guys to the game as myself. I've never run anything except for the sarms stack I'm currently doing. I have plans to run a test only cycle in the future and it's nice to know people like you are out there with loads of information trying to steer people in a knowledgeable and safe direction. Really glad to have you on the site!
 

DylanGemelli

Founding Member
Super Moderator
gymrat827 said:
the only thing im big on is that you dont run something ahead of what your knowledge base is.

you cant go from cycle 2 to cycle 6. there is a lot of learning between them and that time is so valuable its not even funny. We all have stepping stones and have to follow them in life, this is no different.


that's exactly right! i could not agree more... everyone wants to go 0 to 100 overnight and that's just not how it works.. you want to do this for the long haul, you want to continue to make progress and you want to live longer and healthier and it can be done if you just follow the correct path... there will be mistakes along the way but they need to be learned from and improved upon... so many guys don't realize how lucky they are to have guidance right when they start like the strong forums like us offer... a lot of guys around now did not have anything like that and went off into the unknown... its amazing to see how many people care so much and look after everyone as they do... its amazing and its highly commendable...
 

DylanGemelli

Founding Member
Super Moderator
CriticalEclipZzZ said:
gymrat827 said:
*****TEST IS USED ON ALL CYCLES>>>>>NOT ALWAYS MENTIONED IN HERE, BUT ONE SHOULD ALWAYS USE IT*****



Relatively moderate doses of gear can get you fairly large and somewhat above your natural maximum level of developement, or that level of muscular developement that can be held to with your own natural T production, but only IF you train, eat and sleep well.

For the average guy of average height 5'9-10", with average bone structure and with genetically typical recuperative powers that means about 190-195 lean pounds in body weight and a bench of 275-300 pounds, full squat of 375-400 pounds and about a 500 pound deadlift.

The further above your natural max the more gear you need to see continued progression. The increasing amounts of gear needed does NOT grow in proportion to your increase in body mass. For example, many men can get to 10 pounds above natural max with as little as 250mg of test per week........to gain 10% more weight above this number does NOT require just 10% more gear...it requires a fair bit more. So to get to say 30- or 40 pounds above your natural max requires a lot of gear.

So the amount of gear you need to use depends mostly on how close you are to your natural max, or how far above you are from your natural max.

*Larger doses done at a low body weight do make gains a little faster but it isn't worth the money and or sides in my opinion...and the "faster" isn't that much faster anyway.


FACTOIDS

250mg of test cyp provides over twice the weekly testosterone that a young man produces naturally..so for you guys that are not at your natural max you can gain well WITHOUT gear, if you know how to train without gear, or gain very well with low to moderate doses of steroids.

100mg of cyp provides about 70mg of pure testosterone(minus ester weight)

Testes produce between 4 and 8 mg of testosterone a day....that's only 28 to about 70mg a week!..so you can see why 250 of cyp/week(175mg of pure test) can bring you to a little above your natural max, which is actually a pretty impressive level of developement.


NOVICE CYCLES AND GEAR CHOICE...those men not yet at their natural max.

Best to take single roids when you start out, and preferably testosterone for two reasons#1. you don't need to stack to see good results and #2. it is a good idea to get a good grasp on how you react to the best single hormone out there...testosterone( in the gains department and sides department)

Any roid taken alone can produce decent results but only four are really worth your while in this regard....#1 Testosterone, #2. D-bol #3. Anadrol and #4 tren. Personally I don't like anadrol since a high mg dose is required in order to see best results and this means a lot of liver toxic 17aa compound is ingested.....although for the short cycle it is "okay".


CYCLE #1

Understanding that few want to take as little as 250 of test a week and most want to see gains as rapidly as possible I will then recommend 400-500mg of testosterone cypionate or enanthate per week for the newbie. DURATION 8-12 weeks with an equal time off.

**** Always have an estrogen blocker available like nolvadex at 20mg/day or at least clomid at 50mg/day...nolva works better though

You get the most even blood level by injecting these esters twice a week....so 200-250mg twice a week will be more than enough.

SHORT CYCLE OPTION 4-6 weeks but with test prop at 100mg every other day....lots of shots though.

PLEASE see my post on "Keeping GAINS from Steroids" for info on post cycle therapy and how to keep your gains from a cycle.
.
PLEASE see my post on SHORT CYCLES for info on how to do short cycles properly.

ALSO..test is test bro's... test sust is fine too although too expensive compaired with cyp and enanthate.

CYCLE OPTION #2.

D-bol only at 30mg/day in 4 divided dose and one just before bed.
The only roid that is better than test IN THE SHORT RUN is d-bol...a truly UNREAL steroid and a favorite for over 40 years. D-bol was discovered way back in 1956 and quickly became a favorite of the pro's. D-bol only cycles work VERY WELL so don't let anyone BS you about them. They have been done by many over the last 45 years.

Nolva on hand.

* limit time "on' d-bol to 6 weeks as it is 17aa and can be hard on the liver.

MYTH:..some say that the gains from d-bol do not last...this is BS....the truth is the gains IN WATER from d-bol don't last so it SEEMS lilke the muscle gains don't last. Any steroid taken at bodybuilding doses, even at newbie doses, is going to shut down HPTA all the way so you can see that this "loss of muscular gains" ideation makes no sence.

NOTE: There is one steroid that is quite mild androgenically but seems to result in delayed HPTA recovery IN SOME(not me btw) and it is not d-bol...it is nandrolone, commonly used in the deconate ester(deca) We don't understand why some bro's have a little trouble recuperating from this roid but it is a fact non the less.

CYCLE #3.

test cyp or enanthate at 400-500mg/week for 8-12 weeks AND d-bol 30mg/day in divided dose for the first 4 weeks. This is a powerful combo indeed. The d-bol really gets things moving in a hurry.
Trouble with this stack is that you are going to experience a good deal of water retention and"bloat". An estrogen inhibitor like arimidex at .5-1mg/day might be a good idea....but now it is getting overly complicated for many novices.

Short cycle option....test prop 100mg every other day and d-bol 30mg/day for 4-6 weeks.

Have nolva on hand for sure! Estrogen inhibitors DO NOT work well for gyno protection...USE an estrogen blocker like nolva.

CYCLE #4 for the "gutsy" newbie

test at 400mg/week and tren a 75mg every other day. Really good stack but it requires a lot of injecting so you better get your research done in this regard. Can do it shot the short cycle too.

CYCLE #5.

A classic again...test/deca at 250mg each for 8-12 weeks

CYCLE #6

yet another proven winner...deca at 400mg/week for 10 weeks and d-bol 30mg/day for 4 weeks....really nice synergistic combo here.

After each cycle take at least an equal time "off" from gear to allow your system to fully normalize.


SIGNS OF GYNO
Every day in the shower rub your nipples with a soapy hand...if they are getting sore or ichy then hop on the nolva right away.
In reality it is almost(almost guys) impossble to get gyno unless you take aromatizing gear( those that convert to estrogen) like test, d-bol, deca and the like.

OTHER CYCLE OPTIONS FOR THE NOVICE

Sure you can use other roids ...but they are not your best choices but then again that depends on your goals. If you are looking for less in the way of gains then go ahead and try them.......just don't expect to NOT be shut down by them.

ie: Anavar alone at 30-50mg/day individed dose for 4- 6 weeks..it's 17aa too

Winstrol at 50mg/day IM or orally. IM is better....for 4-6 weeks...it's 17aa

A word on 17aa roids

Done at modest dose and modest time as above then 17aa roids are not that hard on the liver. You should limit time on a 17aa roid to 4-6 weeks though just to be extra safe.

Primo, if you can find the "real macoy"...ity's usually fakes as deca. try 600mg/week

EQ at 400-600mg/week

deca at 400mg/week

A word or two on deca....deca has beengiven a "bad rap" of late....some really bash this excellent anabolic. They say is it converts to progesterone, gives you gyno, kills your libido, and it's hard to recover from.....WELL>>>here are the real fact on deca

#1. deca DOES NOT convert to progesterone....it a progestin and activates the PR more so than most roids.
#2. It almost never causes gyno at moderate dose.
#3. Some guys have a hard time recovering from deca. We don't know why this is really but many guys do not have a hard time recovering from deca...me and most of my clients included.
#4. Yes it can affect libido since it doesn't provide the needed androgen BUT it almost never does at 400mg/week....and if it does then as little as 100mg of test/week will cure that.

All in all it's an excellent roid and will be just fine for a first cycle and as I said ...if your sex drive drops then add a little test to the mix or proviron.



tren alone at 50-75mg every other day is your best bet of the above, if you can accept frequent injections...they are not bad bro's.

A WORD ON tren
Some say that this roid is too harsh for a newbie but these same guys often recommend a test/d-bol stack which is harsher IMHO and done without an estrogen inhibitor the bloat can get pretty uncomfortable.
Sure it's a strong androgen but doing tren alone is no worse than doing a half decent dose of test alone....it won't give you the gains of test alone but it isn't any harsher.
AND BTW...the tren and kidney toxicity thing is another myth. I have done as much as 100 of tren/day for 10 weeks straight with no elevation in kidney panel levels.


INTERMEDIATE CYCLES...for those that are at or close to natural max.

Same cycles but higher doses if you like.

Also, it is best to inject test prop and tren DAILY...so now that you have some good experience do just that for best gains.

ULTIMATE INTERMEDIATE CYCLE
test at 400-750mg/week(or less) and tren at 75mg/day...UNREAL STACK and simply the best there is. This is all that the intermediate needs!

******** In fact dare I say that you can accomplish ANY goal as a bodybuilder with just these two roids(along with growth and slin as you hit the national level)


ADVANCED CYCLES...for those above their natural max.

I a not going to recommend much for you advanced bro's as you know what is best for you already.

As you know once you get really big and truly "advanced" it gets tricky as you need more and more gear the further you get from your natural max.

To get FREAKY big like a top national level competitor or pro you need LARGE doses of gear, as well as growth and perhpas slin. You also need to be "on" a long time.

You really need to fully understand HCG use at this level since you are usually"on' for longer periods of time.

The pro's take up 2-4 grams of test a week!!!! along with other gear, growth and slin. NOT HEALTHY if I do say myself...but this is their job.

You can still get pretty F-ing big with somewhat moderate doses IF you have "all your ducks in a row"...training, eating, rest, sleep, stress outside the gym etc. Quadsweep from Elite is a national level man and his cycles are quite modest and he is just starting to use growth.

I got to a leanish 245 at 5'10" with a bench of 430, deep bodybulider style squat of near 700 pounds and almost 800 in the deadlift... with modest amounts of gear and never more than a gram of test a week.

NOTE: I did not feel healthy at that size and using big doses of gear and I don't recommend one try to get really huge unless you intend to make your living as a pro or want to see what you can accomplish at the national level at least.

My all time favorite stack is a simple one, but also the best IMHO, and that is test at a gram/week plus tren at 75mg/day with 1mg of arimidex/day.

I have used more gear in another favorite of deca/primo/test and growth but I think mg/mg you cannot beat test/tren.

All time favorite short cycle, advanced, is 50 of d-bol/day and 75 of tren/day and 100 of prop a day with 1mg of arimidex/day for 4-6 weeks.

For pre contest cutting the last few weeks before a show I have done very well with tren at 75mg/day and a small dose of prop.

A WORD ABOUT GH
Growth has been used by bodybuilders since the 70's. The old growth was from cadavers and was called Crescormin.
I don't think growth does a great deal but it does help a bit but some guys have more success with growth. It is usally taken at about .3ius per pound of body weight per week.
The stuff is expensive to so you don't get much bang for the buck.


SLIN
Can be good at about 1iu for every 20 pounds of body weight. Use the rapid acting slin(humulin R) and do it after a workout and after a workout shake.
Watch for the signs of hypoglycemia ...fatigue, feeling cold, jittery, hungry, dizzy, sleepy weakness. Watch for these signs for 6-8 hours after taking the shot...and EAT during this time for sure, especially lots of carbs.
If you don't know what you are doing with slin it CAN kill you.



DO NOT FUK WITH SLIN UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING*****that is all thats needs to be said about it. be responsibile if it is your 1st time, very responsibile.

Awesome read right here brother! Especially to new guys to the game as myself. I've never run anything except for the sarms stack I'm currently doing. I have plans to run a test only cycle in the future and it's nice to know people like you are out there with loads of information trying to steer people in a knowledgeable and safe direction. Really glad to have you on the site!


yes bro, he is a wealth of knowledge... gymrat is a major vet and he knows his shit inside and out... he laid out some really strong information for everyone all over the forum and i know he has more planned... he's a huge asset to the family here
 

RickRock

Community Leader
VIP Moderator
gymrat827 said:
the only thing im big on is that you dont run something ahead of what your knowledge base is.

you cant go from cycle 2 to cycle 6. there is a lot of learning between them and that time is so valuable its not even funny. We all have stepping stones and have to follow them in life, this is no different.


That is the absolute truth. This whole thing is a marathon, and not a sprint. You can build on it a little bit over time. One thing I hate to see with some of the younger guys, is using way too much way too soon
 

DylanGemelli

Founding Member
Super Moderator
RickRock said:
gymrat827 said:
the only thing im big on is that you dont run something ahead of what your knowledge base is.

you cant go from cycle 2 to cycle 6. there is a lot of learning between them and that time is so valuable its not even funny. We all have stepping stones and have to follow them in life, this is no different.


That is the absolute truth. This whole thing is a marathon, and not a sprint. You can build on it a little bit over time. One thing I hate to see with some of the younger guys, is using way too much way too soon


the dreaded more is better concept... it's funny because a lot of times, less can be better... a lot of times adding more only brings on the problematic areas as opposed to bringing out the best... too many fall victim to the more is better method... obviously for some things more can be needed and its far safer but most, more is the worst way to go about it...
 
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