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MK-677: The power of the compound compels you!

Blue_Shine

Member
Member
In the spirit of our academic pursuit for new insights regarding our favourite compounds, iSARMs forum gives you the second installation - featuring MK-677. Some of these effects may be known to you, but the more medical information is made clear, the more certainty we have with respect to the compounds' effects.

Disclaimer: If you choose to supplement with a given compound, ultimately, the responsibility is on you to make sure you are well informed. This author feels that there is no substitute to making decisions based on guidelines set by professionals with experience using MK-677.

MK-677 has displayed the phenomenal ability to dramatically help heal fractured bones

A human study investigating 123 patients, all having hip fractures were dosed with MK-677. Hip fracture are notoriously known to be some of the most complex fractures with respect to healing and limitations, often leaving patients with a measure of life long debilitation. This human study has undeniably demonstrated that when a subset of patients were medicated with 25mg/day of MK-677 for 24 weeks, patients displayed significantly accelerated recovery and bone density restoration secondary to rapid healing of the bone matrix[SUB](1)[/SUB].

MK-677 has been shown to reverse crucial parameters of aging in humans​
As we age, the physiology of our body changes. We develop decreased sensations for thirst and appetite, the body's response to anabolic hormones and insulin dwindles down, we utilize nutrient less efficiently, as well as Protein Energy Wasting throughout the entire body.
Yet another human study, following up on healthy patients in the ages of 60-81 dosing with 25mg/day of MK-677 for 1 year and 2 years, has shown the following dramatic effect on the physiology of aging:
- Significantly increased serum levels of IGF-I and GH
- Recomposition of fat to lean muscle ratio
- Increased in limb mass without exercise
- Reduced age related muscle wasting (sarcopenia)[SUB](2)[/SUB]
- Improvement in muscle strength and function without exercise
- Increase in body hydration at the cellular level
- Redistribution of abdominal fat deposits to subcutaneous fat (i.e. “bad kind” to “good kind”)
- Reduction of LDL cholesterol levels in the blood without dietary alterations
- Increase in Hemoglobin serum concentration [SUB](3)(4)[/SUB]

MK-677 can help repair the aging heart and the aging blood vessels​
The vast human cardiovascular network of arteries, veins and capillaries constantly requires repair and maintenance. In the recent past the medical field has identified the presence of stem cells, cells that show the ability to constantly regenerate and form brand new cells and tissues.
Recently, researchers were able to identify that the cells lining the blood vessels as well as the inner layers of the heart (endothelial cells), that require repair throughout our lifetime, also have stem cells that form them. Sadly, those stem cells become less and less potent as we age, losing the ability to fix the walls of the blood vessels and the heart.
Application of MK-677 suggested that these stem cells were able to maintain their regenerative capacity, essentially rendering your cardiovascular system...Ageless...[SUB](5)[/SUB]

MK-677 has demonstrated the capacity to prevent death of heart muscle cells​
Various receptor arrays present within the heart muscle cells, for reasons remaining unknown to us, respond to MK-677 unambiguously, causing a cardioprotective (heart preserving) effect on heart muscle cells. This has been speculated to be clinically relevant to prevent cellular death (termed "apoptosis") post heart attack, ischemia (blood depravation), loss of contractile force of heart muscle cells and possibly heart failure[SUB](28)[/SUB].


MK-677 has demonstrated the ability to completely restructure your body's hormonal axis

It is commonly observed that over aging, the entire endocrine (hormonal) spectrum of the human body slowly changes. Whereas one can consider supplementing each hormone as it declines, such as Testosterone, Thyroid hormone, GH, IGF-I Calcitonin, Aldosterone et cetera – the quintessential issue is - we would have to inject numerous substances over our lifetime in a non sustainable way.
MK-677, in that respect, seems to address the issue as the grand maestro of our endocrine axis, and instead of being a specific substitute to a declining hormone, it works on a conglomerate of receptors within the central nervous system, resetting the entire pulsatile and reactive secretory functions[SUB](6)(7)(8)(9)(10)(11)(12)(13)[/SUB] of many hormones. In that respect, MK-677 not only has the ability to restore our hormonal status to its former days of glory, it does so in the physiological proportions each individual has within his own genetic blueprint, in a harmonious fashion[SUB](14)(15)(16)(17)(18)(19)(20)(21)(22)(23)(24)(25)(26)(27)[/SUB].

Why should I choose MK-677 over hGH?

I've seen this question been asked numerous times, with many possible answers, albeit with poor explanation or supporting reasoning. Let's put the oral versos injectable application aside, I doubt you guys mind the needles. In this scenario, it's quite likely that experience alone would not suffice, since the observed effects seem to be quite similar between MK-677 and hGH. Scientifically, however, this couldn't be further from the truth. This is the idea of upstream mechanism effect (try to bear with me on this).
Imagine your car engine getting a lot of milage, combustion rates in the cylinders are uneven, oil leaks and oil pressure drops occur, the joints and bolts rust, et cetera. Of course, you can replace pistons, valves and engine blocks, pieces here and there... Or alternately – replace the engine, solve the problem upstream of the component causing the mechanical fault
Wheres hGH is a puzzle piece that causes specific anti-aging effect, MK-677 operates at an upstream higher level. MK-677 has the benefit of influencing the production of hGH, as well as dozens of other hormones, via mechanisms we employ naturally as humans. It "reteaches" the body how to reconsttitute the physiologically, naturally occurring endocrine (hormonal) axis as a whole. This allows MK-677 to direct the body to resume natural synthesis and secretion of the substances whose effect we can get by injecting them separately. Yet another difference, is that the alterations of physiology resulting from MK-677 applications are speculated to be long lasting past the last administration, since we are not simply supplementing one puzzle piece, we're directing the very hand that puts all the pieces together.

Any and all feedback is greatly appreciated.

Thanks for reading, and please supplement responsively.

References follow in the immediate post
 
Last edited:

Blue_Shine

Member
Member
References
[SUB](1)MK-0677 (ibutamoren mesylate) for the treatment of patients recovering from hip fracture: a multicenter, randomized, placebo-controlled phase IIb study/ Adunsky A, Chandler J, Heyden N, Lutkiewicz J, Scott BB, Berd Y, Liu N, Papanicolaou DA; Archives of Gerontology and Geriatrics (2011); (2)Nature Clinical Practice Gastroenterology & Hepatology (2009) 6,1doi:10.1038/ncpgasthep1320 ; (3)Nass, R., Pezzoli, S.S., Oliveri, M.C. et al. Effects of an oral ghrelin mimetic on body composition and clinical outcomes in healthy older adults: A randomized trial/ Ann Intern Med. 2008; 149: 601–611 (4)Katz, A., Nambi, S.S., Mather, K. et al. Quantitative insulin sensitivity check index: A simple, accurate method for assessing insulin sensitivity in human. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2000; 85: 2402–2410 (5) The effects of growth hormone and insulin-like growth factor-1 on the aging cardiovascular system and its progenitor cells/ Devin JK, Young PP; Current Opinion in Investigational Drugs, London (2008); (6)Boyar RM, Nogeire C, Fukushima D, Hellman L, Fishman J 1977 Studies of the diurnal pattern of plasma corticosteroids and gonadotropins in two cases of feminizing adrenal carcinoma: measurements of estrogen and corticosteroid production. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 44:39–45; (7)Spratt DI, O’Dea LS, Schoenfeld D, Butler J, Rao PN, Crowley Jr WF 1988 Neuroendocrine-gonadal axis in men: frequent sampling of LH, FSH, and testosterone. Am J Physiol 254:E658—E666; (8)Veldhuis JD, King JC, Urban RJ, Rogol AD, Evans WS, Kolp LA, Johnson ML 1987 Operating characteristics of the male hypothalamo-pituitary-gonadal axis: pulsatile release of testosterone and follicle-stimulating hormone and their temporal coupling with luteinizing hormone. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 65:929–941;(9)Lejeune-Lenain C, Van Cauter E, Desir D, Beyloos M, Franckson JR 1987 Control of circadian and episodic variations of adrenal androgens secretion in man. J Endocrinol Invest 10:267–276;(10)Winters SJ, Troen P 1982 Episodic luteinizing hormone (LH) secretion and the response of LH and follicle-stimulating hormone to LH-releasing hormone in aged men: evidence for coexistent primary testicular insufficiency and an impairment in gonadotropin secretion. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 55:560–565 ;(11)Winters SJ, Troen P 1986 Testosterone and estradiol are co-secreted episodically by the human testis. J Clin Invest 78:870–873;(12)Penny R, Goebelsmann U 1984 Effect of estradiol on plasma melatonin levels. J Endocrinol Invest 7:55–57;(13)West CD, Mahajan DK, Chavre VJ, Nabors CJ, Tyler FH 1973 Simultaneous measurement of multiple plasma steroids by radioimmunoassay demonstrating episodic secretion. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 36:1230–1236 ; (14)Rosenfield RL, Helke JC 1974 Small diurnal and episodic fluctuations of the plasma free testosterone level in normal women. Am J Obstet Gynecol 120:461–465; (15)Ehara Y, Siler T, VandenBerg G, Sinha YN, Yen SS 1973 Circulating prolactin levels during the menstrual cycle: episodic release and diurnal variation. Am J Obstet Gynecol 117:962–970; (16)Refetoff S, Van Cauter E, Fang VS, Laderman C, Graybeal ML, Landau RL 1985 The effect of dexamethasone on the 24-hour profiles of adrenocorticotropin and cortisol in Cushing’s syndrome. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 60:527–535; (17)Westerlund J, Gylfe E, Bergsten P 1997 Pulsatile insulin release from pancreatic islets with nonoscillatory elevation of cytoplasmic Ca2+. J Clin Invest 100:2547–2551; (18)Vermeulen A, Deslypere JP, Kaufman JM 1989 Influence of antiopioids on luteinizing hormone pulsatility in aging men. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 68:68–72; (19)Kitamura N, Shigeno C, Shiomi K, Lee K, Ohta S, Sone T, Katsushima S, Tadamura E, Kousaka T, Yamamoto I 1990 Episodic fluctuation in serum intact parathyroid hormone concentration in men. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 70:252–263; (20)Licinio J, Negrao AB, Mantzoros C, Kaklamani V, Wong ML, Bongiorno PB, Mulla A, Cearnal L, Veldhuis JD, Flier JS, McCann SM, Gold PW 1998 Synchronicity of frequently sampled, 24-h concentrations of circulating leptin, luteinizing hormone, and estradiol in healthy women. Proc Natl Acad Sci USA 95:2541–2546; (21)Mantzoros CS, Ozata M, Negrao AB, Suchard MA, Ziotopoulou M, Caglayan S, Elashoff RM, Cogswell RJ, Negro P, Liberty V, Wong ML, Veldhuis J, Ozdemir IC, Gold PW, Flier JS, Licinio J 2001 Synchronicity of frequently sampled thyrotropin (TSH) and leptin concentrations in healthy adults and leptin-deficient subjects: evidence for possible partial TSH regulation by leptin in humans. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 86:3284–3291; (22)Boesgaard S, Hagen C, Hangaard J, Andersen AN, Eldrup E 1990 Effect of dopamine and a dopamine D-1 receptor agonist on pulsatile thyrotrophin secretion in normal women. Clin Endocrinol (Oxf) 32:423–431; (23)Genter P, Berman N, Jacob M, Ipp E 1998 Counterregulatory hormones oscillate during steady-state hypoglycemia. Am J Physiol 275:E821—E829 ; (24)Juhl CB, Porksen N, Sturis J, Hansen AP, Veldhuis JD, Pincus S, Fineman M, Schmitz O 2000 High-frequency oscillations in circulating amylin concentrations in healthy humans. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 278:E484—E490 ; (25)Ho KY, Veldhuis JD, Johnson ML, Furlanetto R, Evans WS, Alberti KG, Thorner MO 1988 Fasting enhances growth hormone secretion and amplifies the complex rhythms of growth hormone secretion in man. J Clin Invest 81:968–975; (26)Ho KY, Evans WS, Blizzard RM, Veldhuis JD, Merriam GR, Samojlik E, Furlanetto R, Rogol AD, Kaiser DL, Thorner MO 1987 Effects of sex and age on the 24-hour profile of growth hormone secretion in man: importance of endogenous estradiol concentrations. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 64:51–58; (27)Bowers CY, Momany F, Reynolds GA, Chang D, Hong A, Chang K 1981 Structure-activity relationships of a synthetic pentapeptide that specifically releases growth hormone in vitro. Endocrinology 106:663–667; (28) Ghrelin and des-acyl ghrelin inhibit cell death in cardiomyocytes and endothelial cells through ERK1/2 and PI 3-kinase/AKT/ Gianluca B, Nicoletta F, Santina C, Filomena C et al.; The Journal of Cell Biology(2002)[/SUB]
 

RickRock

Community Leader
VIP Moderator
I'm really loving these pieces you are putting together that shows all these awesome benefits that are more unknown. I absolutely love MK677. It's my favorite sarm, and this info really sweetens the pot even more!

(PM me for a price list for Biotech Labs and 10% discount)
 

DylanGemelli

Founding Member
Super Moderator
NOW THIS is some info!! SO well written and constructed bro... so many fine points brought up especially with regards to comparing it to HGH... this question is OFTEN asked and this is a perfect point of reference..
 

Rambo84

Member
Member
Thanks for putting this together. A must read for some looking into 677 for their first time like me and also for the experienced ones....
 

mig206

Member
Member
Awesome write up, thanks Blue_Shine!

Here's a story about the healing aspects of MK-677. I've been on it for about 4 months now. 3 weeks ago I had to get a gum graft. I was curious to see if the MK would impact my healing. I noticed that I could manage the pain easily and didn't have to use nearly as much pain medication as my dr. had prescribed. At the 1 week post-op, when the doctor opened my mouth to check things out, she started literally screaming and called other doctors and assistants to come look. She said that the graft looked great and that I was healing at twice the pace as is normal, she couldn't believe it. I credit the MK for a lot of this. I'm seeing her again this week and she said that at the pace I was healing she might be able to take my stitches out, two full weeks sooner than she had anticipated.
 

Blue_Shine

Member
Member
Awesome write up, thanks Blue_Shine!

Here's a story about the healing aspects of MK-677. I've been on it for about 4 months now. 3 weeks ago I had to get a gum graft. I was curious to see if the MK would impact my healing. I noticed that I could manage the pain easily and didn't have to use nearly as much pain medication as my dr. had prescribed. At the 1 week post-op, when the doctor opened my mouth to check things out, she started literally screaming and called other doctors and assistants to come look. She said that the graft looked great and that I was healing at twice the pace as is normal, she couldn't believe it. I credit the MK for a lot of this. I'm seeing her again this week and she said that at the pace I was healing she might be able to take my stitches out, two full weeks sooner than she had anticipated.

That's a great story you got there. I predict that the more prevalent the use of this compound becomes, the more overwhelming amount of empirical evidence we'll be able to stack up in its corner.
 

vewq

Member
Member
Awesome write up, thanks Blue_Shine!

Here's a story about the healing aspects of MK-677. I've been on it for about 4 months now. 3 weeks ago I had to get a gum graft. I was curious to see if the MK would impact my healing. I noticed that I could manage the pain easily and didn't have to use nearly as much pain medication as my dr. had prescribed. At the 1 week post-op, when the doctor opened my mouth to check things out, she started literally screaming and called other doctors and assistants to come look. She said that the graft looked great and that I was healing at twice the pace as is normal, she couldn't believe it. I credit the MK for a lot of this. I'm seeing her again this week and she said that at the pace I was healing she might be able to take my stitches out, two full weeks sooner than she had anticipated.
Man.. This is so damn awesome for me to hear. I'm going into ACL reconstructive surgery in about 2 month, reading this is really helpful & makes me even more confident I will smash recovery records and be at 110% quickly! Cheers!! :)
 

RickRock

Community Leader
VIP Moderator
Awesome write up, thanks Blue_Shine!

Here's a story about the healing aspects of MK-677. I've been on it for about 4 months now. 3 weeks ago I had to get a gum graft. I was curious to see if the MK would impact my healing. I noticed that I could manage the pain easily and didn't have to use nearly as much pain medication as my dr. had prescribed. At the 1 week post-op, when the doctor opened my mouth to check things out, she started literally screaming and called other doctors and assistants to come look. She said that the graft looked great and that I was healing at twice the pace as is normal, she couldn't believe it. I credit the MK for a lot of this. I'm seeing her again this week and she said that at the pace I was healing she might be able to take my stitches out, two full weeks sooner than she had anticipated.

Wow! That is truly remarkable and incredible. Healing at twice the rate as expected says a lot about the healing abilities of MK-677. Thank you for sharing your experience with us. It's greatly appreciated!


(PM me for a price list for Biotech Labs and 10% discount)
 

Blue_Shine

Member
Member
Man.. This is so damn awesome for me to hear. I'm going into ACL reconstructive surgery in about 2 month, reading this is really helpful & makes me even more confident I will smash recovery records and be at 110% quickly! Cheers!! :)

Depending on the injury extent and kinetics, as well as your opted procedure (implant vs synthetic) - an average person will be predicted to recover after 4-6 months with physio.

I have had experience with athletes attaining full recovery and training for their events in under 3 months.

I have also seen athletes supplementing hGH recovering in under 90 days (!!!); MK-677, providing it has been dosed for a while, is predicted to have a similar effect.

Good post. Thanks for putting it out there for us :)
 

vewq

Member
Member
Depending on the injury extent and kinetics, as well as your opted procedure (implant vs synthetic) - an average person will be predicted to recover after 4-6 months with physio.

I have had experience with athletes attaining full recovery and training for their events in under 3 months.

I have also seen athletes supplementing hGH recovering in under 90 days (!!!); MK-677, providing it has been dosed for a while, is predicted to have a similar effect.

Good post. Thanks for putting it out there for us :)
Seriously?! Damn!!! :D I keep being told "12 months but never completely recovered" by doctors & random lazy fucks that didn't rehab.. Of course, I never listened to that. I was aiming for 6 months for a proper 100% recovery, this seriously makes me excited.

I started MK677 2 days ago, so I'll be running it before surgery & throughout the entire recovery process.

I'm having a hamstring tendon graft for the surgery.

I truly appreciate this post and your help here. Thank you! :)
 

Blue_Shine

Member
Member
Seriously?! Damn!!! :D I keep being told "12 months but never completely recovered" by doctors & random lazy fucks that didn't rehab.. Of course, I never listened to that. I was aiming for 6 months for a proper 100% recovery, this seriously makes me excited.

I started MK677 2 days ago, so I'll be running it before surgery & throughout the entire recovery process.

I'm having a hamstring tendon graft for the surgery.

I truly appreciate this post and your help here. Thank you! :)

12 months is the top end, mainly for individuals with pre-existing debilitations, or the general population older than 45 years of age. Unless you fall under those categories, It's unlikely it'll take you that long if you do your physiotherapy.

Bear in mind your attending physician usually will spit out a number that isn't necessarily tailored to your parameters, and that's understandable.

A hamstring graft - ask your surgeon if he'll use the semi-spinateous muscle. That would be my guess based on US standard of care. In that case you can expect a fairly speedy recovery.

Starting MK-677 two days ago doesn't really help me consult you on its likely effect if you're not telling me when your operation is scheduled :) But bear in mind that MK-677 has been shown clinically to start effecting the musculoskeletal recovery after roughly 20-24 weeks. (Reference:MK-0677 (ibutamoren mesylate) for the treatment of patients recovering from hip fracture: a multicenter, randomized, placebo-controlled phase IIb study/ Adunsky A, Chandler J, Heyden N, Lutkiewicz J, Scott BB, Berd Y, Liu N, Papanicolaou DA; Archives of Gerontology and Geriatrics (2011); )

For a speedy recovery:
- Eat clean before and after the operation, excess sugars delay wound healing and increase the time needed to resolve deep tissue inflammation.
- Do not underrate your physio regimen.
- Do not go hard on hamstring exercises, I recommend not doing anything save for walking for the initial 1-2 months post-op or so, followed by low intensity with higher volume workouts for hamstrings.
- Cardio is your friend.

Enjoy your reconstruction :)
 

vewq

Member
Member
12 months is the top end, mainly for individuals with pre-existing debilitations, or the general population older than 45 years of age. Unless you fall under those categories, It's unlikely it'll take you that long if you do your physiotherapy.

Bear in mind your attending physician usually will spit out a number that isn't necessarily tailored to your parameters, and that's understandable.

A hamstring graft - ask your surgeon if he'll use the semi-spinateous muscle. That would be my guess based on US standard of care. In that case you can expect a fairly speedy recovery.

Starting MK-677 two days ago doesn't really help me consult you on its likely effect if you're not telling me when your operation is scheduled :) But bear in mind that MK-677 has been shown clinically to start effecting the musculoskeletal recovery after roughly 20-24 weeks. (Reference:MK-0677 (ibutamoren mesylate) for the treatment of patients recovering from hip fracture: a multicenter, randomized, placebo-controlled phase IIb study/ Adunsky A, Chandler J, Heyden N, Lutkiewicz J, Scott BB, Berd Y, Liu N, Papanicolaou DA; Archives of Gerontology and Geriatrics (2011); )

For a speedy recovery:
- Eat clean before and after the operation, excess sugars delay wound healing and increase the time needed to resolve deep tissue inflammation.
- Do not underrate your physio regimen.
- Do not go hard on hamstring exercises, I recommend not doing anything save for walking for the initial 1-2 months post-op or so, followed by low intensity with higher volume workouts for hamstrings.
- Cardio is your friend.

Enjoy your reconstruction :)
I fall under the 22 year old, extremely active, no diseases & very healthy diet category... ;)

Yeah I realize they're just puking out numbers.. I understand why..

I'll ask my surgeon about the exact method, but I'd think that's the one. I live in Sweden though.

I don't have a scheduled date for the surgery yet. I was told 2-3 months about two weeks ago. It seems like a good thing I started dosing MK677 now then, since it's 20-24 week until those results start showing?

I feel I got those recovery tips covered, but I'm always aiming to improve! Again, I truly appreciate & value your tips & help. :)

(Sorry for hijacking the thread, but hopefully it's helping someone else too..)
 

Blue_Shine

Member
Member
I fall under the 22 year old, extremely active, no diseases & very healthy diet category... ;)

Yeah I realize they're just puking out numbers.. I understand why..

I'll ask my surgeon about the exact method, but I'd think that's the one. I live in Sweden though.

I don't have a scheduled date for the surgery yet. I was told 2-3 months about two weeks ago. It seems like a good thing I started dosing MK677 now then, since it's 20-24 week until those results start showing?

I feel I got those recovery tips covered, but I'm always aiming to improve! Again, I truly appreciate & value your tips & help. :)

(Sorry for hijacking the thread, but hopefully it's helping someone else too..)

It seems like a good thing I started dosing MK677 now then, since it's 20-24 week until those results start showing?
Since this is your first reconstructive operation on your ACL (I assume) you won't know the difference between showing results vs. not showing results, but yes - MK-677 will be kicked into gear and help you out. Count on it.

I live in Sweden though.
Then that's what you're getting for sure. In the US they sometimes push synthetic implants, but that's just a more expensive way to expose yourself to a host of complications, studies say.

Sorry for hijacking the thread, but hopefully it's helping someone else too..
It's helping YOU. I'm sure everyone's on board with that ;)
 

srv112266

New member
Member
@blue_shine

I have been on MK-677 for 18 weeks, was on RAD 140 for 10 of those weeks as well...still on MK677, and taking a mini PCT of GW and Clomid, but staying on the MK. Have experience incredible results from this combination cycle.

Approx. late Sept of this year, I tore my UCL, near complete tear, rated at a 2+ on a scale of 1-3 whereas a 3 is complete rupture. Options are complete UCL reconstruction (Tommy John surgery) or try PRP with Stem cell injections to see if can push out surgery (knowing complete surgery is 99% going to happen eventually). Two questions: first - will, or should the MK help with the PRP & Stem cell to aid in any potential healing, and second - when full UCL surgery is performed, will MK help in the recovery / healing from the surgery. As you likely know, Tommy John rehab protocol is 12 months, with some slightly sooner, and some even longer. Would love to hear your thoughts on this.

This injury is primarily (if not only) experienced from baseball players (mainly high velocity pitchers), --- I would anticipate at least 6+ years of competitive pitching left, so I am going to have these treatments / procedures.
 

Blue_Shine

Member
Member
@blue_shine

I have been on MK-677 for 18 weeks, was on RAD 140 for 10 of those weeks as well...still on MK677, and taking a mini PCT of GW and Clomid, but staying on the MK. Have experience incredible results from this combination cycle.

Approx. late Sept of this year, I tore my UCL, near complete tear, rated at a 2+ on a scale of 1-3 whereas a 3 is complete rupture. Options are complete UCL reconstruction (Tommy John surgery) or try PRP with Stem cell injections to see if can push out surgery (knowing complete surgery is 99% going to happen eventually). Two questions: first - will, or should the MK help with the PRP & Stem cell to aid in any potential healing, and second - when full UCL surgery is performed, will MK help in the recovery / healing from the surgery. As you likely know, Tommy John rehab protocol is 12 months, with some slightly sooner, and some even longer. Would love to hear your thoughts on this.

This injury is primarily (if not only) experienced from baseball players (mainly high velocity pitchers), --- I would anticipate at least 6+ years of competitive pitching left, so I am going to have these treatments / procedures.

*taking big breath*

If I understand correctly, we're discussing a slow progression type of chiefly the anterior bundle of the UCL over time, as seen in baseball.

With respect to therapy, the PRP augmented with stem cells has been shown to produce good results in partial tears of lower grades (1); Prevailing medical studies show that for near complete tears it may be unavoidable (as you mentioned) to undertake the Tommy-John surgery.
Since the graft is mostly from the Palmaris Longus which you don't really use, providing you have it, you're unlikely to sacrifice mobility for it. It has also been demonstrated in a study following 743 athletes for 2 years minimum that underwent the Tommy-John procedure - athletes went back to throwing baseballs after 4.4 months on average (the range was 2.8-12 months), as well as showing 83% of professional baseball athletes returning to previous performance level or higher!!!.(2)

In light of your condition, I'm not sure why you were recommended to undertake PRP if surgery is inevitable; My guess would be that it's because this past June 2016, a study came out saying that this operation was overly done(3), which caused many health care professionals to withdraw from it, or attempt a conservative measure prior, so they wouldn't be accused of conflict of interest.

Answers:
Firstly - will, or should the MK help with the PRP & Stem cell to aid in any potential healing?
PRP is transfusion of pre-formed platelets, MK-677 would is unlikely to have an effect on pre formed cells; Stem cells have been shown to react to MK-677, but in an in vivo(meaning your own stem cells in your own body) over long term periods, and not transfused one; There's simply no research on that. My take based on the cellular and biological mechanisms in effect is that the effect would be minimal, if at all.

Second - when full UCL surgery is performed, will MK help in the recovery / healing from the surgery?
Yes. Yes, it is superlatively likely to act in a positive way on tissue regeneration and wound healing, especially if it's an autograph (your own tendon being transplanted), but even in a allograph (a cadaveric tendon). The longer you have been running it pre-op the more impactful its effect would be.

P.S. I did not expect such a challenging question from this forum lol... Well done! :)

References
(1)Treatment of partial ulnar collateral ligament tears in the elbow with platelet-rich plasma.
Podesta L1, Crow SA, Volkmer D, Bert T, Yocum LA; The American Journal of Sports Medicine (2013);
(2) Outcome of ulnar collateral ligament reconstruction of the elbow in 1281 athletes: Results in 743 athletes with minimum 2-year follow-up./ Cain EL Jr1, Andrews JR, Dugas JR, Wilk KE, McMichael CS, Walter JC 2nd, Riley RS, Arthur ST; American Journal of Sports Medicine (2010)
(3)Mahure SA, Mollon B, Shamah SD, Kwon YW, Rokito AS. Disproportionate trends in ulnar collateral ligament reconstruction: projections through 2025 and a literature review. J Shoulder Elbow Surg. 2016 Jun;25(6):1005-12. doi: 10.1016/j.jse.2016.02.036;
 

RickRock

Community Leader
VIP Moderator
I can't get enough of the incredible information shared in this thread. This has become an extremely valuable resource

(PM me for a price list for Biotech Labs and 10% discount)
 

vewq

Member
Member
It seems like a good thing I started dosing MK677 now then, since it's 20-24 week until those results start showing?
Since this is your first reconstructive operation on your ACL (I assume) you won't know the difference between showing results vs. not showing results, but yes - MK-677 will be kicked into gear and help you out. Count on it.

I live in Sweden though.
Then that's what you're getting for sure. In the US they sometimes push synthetic implants, but that's just a more expensive way to expose yourself to a host of complications, studies say.

Sorry for hijacking the thread, but hopefully it's helping someone else too..
It's helping YOU. I'm sure everyone's on board with that ;)
Great points! :D Cheers!

I can't get enough of the incredible information shared in this thread. This has become an extremely valuable resource
Totally agree! Extremely interesting stuff, even for a SARM newbie! :)
 

srv112266

New member
Member
*taking big breath*

If I understand correctly, we're discussing a slow progression type of chiefly the anterior bundle of the UCL over time, as seen in baseball.

With respect to therapy, the PRP augmented with stem cells has been shown to produce good results in partial tears of lower grades (1); Prevailing medical studies show that for near complete tears it may be unavoidable (as you mentioned) to undertake the Tommy-John surgery.
Since the graft is mostly from the Palmaris Longus which you don't really use, providing you have it, you're unlikely to sacrifice mobility for it. It has also been demonstrated in a study following 743 athletes for 2 years minimum that underwent the Tommy-John procedure - athletes went back to throwing baseballs after 4.4 months on average (the range was 2.8-12 months), as well as showing 83% of professional baseball athletes returning to previous performance level or higher!!!.(2)

In light of your condition, I'm not sure why you were recommended to undertake PRP if surgery is inevitable; My guess would be that it's because this past June 2016, a study came out saying that this operation was overly done(3), which caused many health care professionals to withdraw from it, or attempt a conservative measure prior, so they wouldn't be accused of conflict of interest.

Answers:
Firstly - will, or should the MK help with the PRP & Stem cell to aid in any potential healing?
PRP is transfusion of pre-formed platelets, MK-677 would is unlikely to have an effect on pre formed cells; Stem cells have been shown to react to MK-677, but in an in vivo(meaning your own stem cells in your own body) over long term periods, and not transfused one; There's simply no research on that. My take based on the cellular and biological mechanisms in effect is that the effect would be minimal, if at all.

Second - when full UCL surgery is performed, will MK help in the recovery / healing from the surgery?
Yes. Yes, it is superlatively likely to act in a positive way on tissue regeneration and wound healing, especially if it's an autograph (your own tendon being transplanted), but even in a allograph (a cadaveric tendon). The longer you have been running it pre-op the more impactful its effect would be.

P.S. I did not expect such a challenging question from this forum lol... Well done! :)

References
(1)Treatment of partial ulnar collateral ligament tears in the elbow with platelet-rich plasma.
Podesta L1, Crow SA, Volkmer D, Bert T, Yocum LA; The American Journal of Sports Medicine (2013);
(2) Outcome of ulnar collateral ligament reconstruction of the elbow in 1281 athletes: Results in 743 athletes with minimum 2-year follow-up./ Cain EL Jr1, Andrews JR, Dugas JR, Wilk KE, McMichael CS, Walter JC 2nd, Riley RS, Arthur ST; American Journal of Sports Medicine (2010)
(3)Mahure SA, Mollon B, Shamah SD, Kwon YW, Rokito AS. Disproportionate trends in ulnar collateral ligament reconstruction: projections through 2025 and a literature review. J Shoulder Elbow Surg. 2016 Jun;25(6):1005-12. doi: 10.1016/j.jse.2016.02.036;

First, and foremost - as stated by RickRock and others, thank you very much for your contribution to this board. You clearly are at a minimum well educated in the medical / biological field(s).

Most (myself included) are only able to obtain this kind of information by paying for it via consultations, and Dr. visits....and even then, the information obtained is only as good as the person providing it.

Bummer - I was really hoping, that although the tear is bordering a complete tear, that with your information from you original post of fractured hips healing from MK-677, that possibly the UCL would respond more favorable. For the record, the recommendation was UCL reconstructive surgery....I am the one who opted to try the PRP / Stem cell. In fact with this type of injury, not all ortho's are created equal. I see in you references Dr. Yocum from LA....he along with Dr. Jobe, and Dr. Andrews are pioneers in the field of UCL repairs, especially as it relates to baseball pitchers.

As I mentioned, I was on MK 677 & Rad 140, experienced incredible gains in muscle, and strength....and I almost wonder if the very quick increase in strength may have contributed to the tear, as the ligaments / tendons may not be able to adapt quick enough to great increases in stress (in this case - valgus torque on the elbow).

I will continue with the stem cell, and PRP (I have one more treatment, then begin rehab, and back to throwing program), and will keep with the MK-677. If I cannot return to close to similar performance pre-injury., then will shut down, and have the surgery performed by Dr. Kieth Meister (Rangers team doctor, and had an internship with Dr. Andrews at his Birmingham facility). I will find out if autograph of my Palmaris Longus (I don't know what that is to know if I have one!) or from cadaver....I am assuming one is better than the other?

Thanks for paying it forward, and giving this board such a great resource. Hopefully we haven't been too bothersome, or taken up too much of your time.

Much appreciated.

For anyone interested I have attached a pic of the MRI - if you look at the wishbone looking thing, at approx 9 o'clock you can see the bright white strand, that is barely attached on the bone.

Torn UCL.jpg
 
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