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Cycling or Blast/Cruise cross roads- When to switch?

Romes20

Member
Member
A bit of background as I don't post too often here.

I am 32 years old, 192lbs, 11-12%bf, 6'. Diet is 90% clean and I push it in the gym 5-6 days a week. I have been training for about 6 years now and I feel like I am always battling to strike a balance between gym warrior and an office professional that spends a good portion of the day sitting except for going out for walks over the lunch hour 3-4 times a week when weather allows. My goal would be to maintain about 200-205lbs and 10%bf or less. Getting to a point where I could consider competing in a local or State show is a goal that I would *like* to work towards, but have not committed to yet.

I have ran two cycles previously.

First was an 8 week Test Prop run at 100mg EOD. I used Arimidex at about .25mg EOD and ran Nolvadex/DAA PCT for 4 weeks at 40/40/20/20. I could have been better prepared and more thorough with this cycle and made a point to educate myself more so before starting. I gained about 10lbs and kept about 6lbs.

I waited about two months after PCT and got my blood checked and discussed TRT with my GP. I honestly told him that I felt that I displayed many of the symptoms of low test (which was the major reason for trying a cycle in the first place, in addition to feeling like progress was slow and I needed a bit of help to make up for lost time as I began training later in life). I didn't tell him that I had tried testosterone on my own, but that I did know where to obtain it and would prefer to do it through the doctor where results could be monitored more closely. He told me that he is open to the idea if I feel that I need it, and that if after getting my blood tests back that he would write a prescription and I could see how I felt. He also explained that while he could prescribe it, insurance is typically reluctant to cover it unless you can show that you have less than 300ng/dl or so over three consecutive tests.
When I got my bloods back, my Test was at 548ng/dl. I was glad to see this number but am unsure if it is slightly inflated as I had still been taking DAA up until about a week prior to the tests were ran, so I don't know how that could have inflated the number if at all. I told him that I would wait and see how I felt and that if I needed to, I would get in contact with him again.

I decided to run my second cycle, of which I am just wrapping up PCT for was 12 weeks of 400mg Test Cyp with a 60mg Tbol kickstart for the first 6 weeks and a 50mg Proviron for the last few weeks and bridge into PCT. PCT was Clomid, Nolva, and I ran Aromasin at 12.5mg all throughout the cycle and tapered it and the SERMS down over the last few weeks of PCT. (All products were from Pharmalady) I am hoping to stock up in the Fall when the Christmas Sales usually occur and do another run at that point.

I am going to wait another two months, this time no test boosting products or DAA of any kind, get bloods drawn and donate to keep RBC down, with the intent being to still run a Test/low dose Deca cycle in the Fall, and plan to include HCG going forward. Seeing as how most of us start to seriously consider TRT (either through the Dr or self-treatment), and how I am already expecting to push for TRT when I hit about 35 years old, I am wondering if it makes more sense to start that now, or to just keep cycling until my natural test no longer raises. What seems most logical to the vets here or those who have more experience with this sort of thing? On a side note, do we have any threads pertaining to an intro of generally accepted self-treatment protocol for TRT or is this a trial and error thing as well? Thanks for reading and for any help!

Note: Not interested in spending hundreds of dollars on SARMS in between cycles over the long run to bridge. Wife and I are trying to buy a house and I spend a metric shitload of money on food, supplements, etc as it is- She has been very supportive and is accepting about my choice to use gear, so I have a hard time justifying a case for asking her to put up with more.
 
Last edited:

[9oNe6][email protected]

Senior Member
Member
I'm not sure if TRT is needed here, now if you been running bloodwork say 6 months to a year and each result was low level test then TRT sounds like a viable option. Try giving your body more time after PCT 3-6 months then restest and see what your levels are. Now if it's a personal preference to jump on TRT that would be your decision but I wouldn't personally go that route only as a last resort. I am not on TRT so I'm sure one of our other members that is will chime in with more info for you
 

EZ_E

Community Leader
VIP Moderator
A bit of background as I don't post too often here.

I am 32 years old, 192lbs, 11-12%bf, 6'. Diet is 90% clean and I push it in the gym 5-6 days a week. I have been training for about 6 years now and I feel like I am always battling to strike a balance between gym warrior and an office professional that spends a good portion of the day sitting except for going out for walks over the lunch hour 3-4 times a week when weather allows. My goal would be to maintain about 200-205lbs and 10%bf or less. Getting to a point where I could consider competing in a local or State show is a goal that I would *like* to work towards, but have not committed to yet.

I have ran two cycles previously.

First was an 8 week Test Prop run at 100mg EOD. I used Arimidex at about .25mg EOD and ran Nolvadex/DAA PCT for 4 weeks at 40/40/20/20. I could have been better prepared and more thorough with this cycle and made a point to educate myself more so before starting. I gained about 10lbs and kept about 6lbs.

I waited about two months after PCT and got my blood checked and discussed TRT with my GP. I honestly told him that I felt that I displayed many of the symptoms of low test (which was the major reason for trying a cycle in the first place, in addition to feeling like progress was slow and I needed a bit of help to make up for lost time as I began training later in life). I didn't tell him that I had tried testosterone on my own, but that I did know where to obtain it and would prefer to do it through the doctor where results could be monitored more closely. He told me that he is open to the idea if I feel that I need it, and that if after getting my blood tests back that he would write a prescription and I could see how I felt. He also explained that while he could prescribe it, insurance is typically reluctant to cover it unless you can show that you have less than 300ng/dl or so over three consecutive tests.
When I got my bloods back, my Test was at 548ng/dl. I was glad to see this number but am unsure if it is slightly inflated as I had still been taking DAA up until about a week prior to the tests were ran, so I don't know how that could have inflated the number if at all. I told him that I would wait and see how I felt and that if I needed to, I would get in contact with him again.

I decided to run my second cycle, of which I am just wrapping up PCT for was 12 weeks of 400mg Test Cyp with a 60mg Tbol kickstart for the first 6 weeks and a 50mg Proviron for the last few weeks and bridge into PCT. PCT was Clomid, Nolva, and I ran Aromasin at 12.5mg all throughout the cycle and tapered it and the SERMS down over the last few weeks of PCT. (All products were from Pharmalady) I am hoping to stock up in the Fall when the Christmas Sales usually occur and do another run at that point.

I am going to wait another two months, this time no test boosting products or DAA of any kind, get bloods drawn and donate to keep RBC down, with the intent being to still run a Test/low dose Deca cycle in the Fall, and plan to include HCG going forward. Seeing as how most of us start to seriously consider TRT (either through the Dr or self-treatment), and how I am already expecting to push for TRT when I hit about 35 years old, I am wondering if it makes more sense to start that now, or to just keep cycling until my natural test no longer raises. What seems most logical to the vets here or those who have more experience with this sort of thing? On a side note, do we have any threads pertaining to an intro of generally accepted self-treatment protocol for TRT or is this a trial and error thing as well? Thanks for reading and for any help!

Note: Not interested in spending hundreds of dollars on SARMS in between cycles over the long run to bridge. Wife and I are trying to buy a house and I spend a metric shitload of money on food, supplements, etc as it is- She has been very supportive and is accepting about my choice to use gear, so I have a hard time justifying a case for asking her to put up with more.

Thanks for the details. THIS is how a post should read if someone is asking for advice.

A few observations;

Your stats (which are quite impressive) don't tell me that you're a candidate for TRT, yet, Maybe late 30's, maybe 40's, maybe never.

Your numbers could have been off based on the timing of the test as you stated. This is why regular scheduled bloods are vital. Another blood test after your current cycle and PCT, then another one a couple months later will probably give you a better idea of where you stand.

TRT is a lifetime commitment, one you go on...you're on, no stopping...no going back; like a tattoo or the mafia. You can't change your mind later. And yea, insurance is pretty much useless. So my best advice to anyone is that if you don't ABSOLUTELY need TRT the hold off till you do. DO you have any symptoms of Low-T?

Low libido or sex drive
•Erectile dysfunction or impotence
•Fatigue and lethargy
•Muscle weakness
•Shaving less often, loss of body hair
•Breast growth
•Reduced testicle size Skin changes on the skin, smooth, fine wrinkles

On a somewhat related/unrelated topic; I started competing in 2015 and lovvvvvvvvvvve it. DOn't get me wrong, prep is a f-ing bitch, but when you're up on stage in the top 5 it's allllllllllllllllll worth it. But PLEASE replace that deca for EQ in your next run.
 
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Romes20

Member
Member
Thanks for the reply- My libido isn't the highest- honestly I didn't notice it increase by alot when I was on cycle either...- and I often wake up tired and feel sluggish throughout the day. A bit irritable but those are probably the only symptoms.

I really appreciate the advice- I agree, I'd prefer not to make a move like that until I had to, I am just thinking proactivel, I guess.

I don't have any experience with EQ, other than Dylan videos and reading a few articles online. Any reason why you would go with that over a low dose of Deca? What dose do people usually start with it? 600mg for 16 weeks, I'm guessing? Could probably keep Test low either way. I probably won't go over 300mg again, as I noticed a bit of a blood pressure spike and pressure on my prostate near the end of the cycle, which has since gone away.

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EZ_E

Community Leader
VIP Moderator
You may be a candidate, sometimes Low T hits early. I was diagnosed @ 37.

I wouldn't touch deca with a ten foot pole; shut down, water weight gain, bitch to recover from. Diet and training will dictate gains so you can theoretically add lean mass on deca but why go that way when you have EQ? Work smarter not harder.

I've had a tremendous amount of success with EQ. Lean, quality gains. I'm in offseason right now and using Test C with Bio Tech EQ. Strength is way up, appetite is way up, still have abs.

Yes on the test dose with EQ. I'm running about 400 mg's/week, nice moderate dose and the gains keep comin' !

EQ EQ EQ EQ EQ EQ EQ EQ!!!!!!!!!

For blood pressure issues I take ibuprofen and a baby aspirin 1st thing in the am and Hawthorne berry with meals.
 

Romes20

Member
Member
I've read/heard that RBC count is an issue in EQ...I have been planning on donating in a few months, but how does one usually go about doing so while ON cycle? Don't they both ask about AAS use as well as check for things like that? Would there not be risk associated with those things? That would be my single biggest concern with EQ honestly, aside from the PCT needs/recovery from a long 16 week cycle.

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EZ_E

Community Leader
VIP Moderator
I donate about 4x a year.

You go to Red Cross or United Blood Services and donate. Don't over think it.
 

rockmfhudd

Active member
for sure don't tell them you shoot gear you will be marked for life in their system and you will never be able to get rid of rbc's unless you bleed yourself
 

Romes20

Member
Member
Also, given the longer half life of EQ, how would you structure lengths of time on both it and Test and then the transition into PCT?

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RickRock

Community Leader
VIP Moderator
Also, given the longer half life of EQ, how would you structure lengths of time on both it and Test and then the transition into PCT?

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Still two weeks after last injection is when you should start pct

(PM me for a price list for Biotech Labs and 10% discount)
 

RickRock

Community Leader
VIP Moderator
I've read/heard that RBC count is an issue in EQ...I have been planning on donating in a few months, but how does one usually go about doing so while ON cycle? Don't they both ask about AAS use as well as check for things like that? Would there not be risk associated with those things? That would be my single biggest concern with EQ honestly, aside from the PCT needs/recovery from a long 16 week cycle.

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My RBC is never elevated and I run EQ at High doses. I do however donate every 8 weeks to keep things in check, which is what I recommend to anyone cycling, not just with EQ use

(PM me for a price list for Biotech Labs and 10% discount)
 

Romes20

Member
Member
Two weeks after last Test inj or EQ?- Even though the EQ will still have a substantial amount of it in the body still? I know people usually stop Deca two weeks before Test so they clear out at about the same time so I'm curious if something similar would apply?

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RickRock

Community Leader
VIP Moderator
Two weeks after last Test inj or EQ?- Even though the EQ will still have a substantial amount of it in the body still? I know people usually stop Deca two weeks before Test so they clear out at about the same time so I'm curious if something similar would apply?

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I would stop eq a week or two before test then start pct two weeks after last injection. If you run them the same length start pct 3 weeks after last injection

(PM me for a price list for Biotech Labs and 10% discount)
 

Romes20

Member
Member
How would you typically recommend running SERM dosage/times after a 16-20 week cycle? Just a taper over 6 weeks or so?

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RickRock

Community Leader
VIP Moderator
How would you typically recommend running SERM dosage/times after a 16-20 week cycle? Just a taper over 6 weeks or so?

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For a longer cycle like that, this is how I'd lay out the pct bud

Get everything from www.sarmsx.com

Clomid 50/50/50/25/25/25
Nolva 40/40/20/20/20/20
Aromasin 12.5mg EOD
MK-2866 25mg ED
GW 20mg ED

(PM me for a price list for Biotech Labs and 10% discount)
 

bigbassturd

Member
Member
Definitely do some more long term and accurate testing before making that kind of commitment bro. I have ran a ton of cycles (some of them with more gear than should be even considered reasonable) and even cruised for nearly 4 months on test and jumped into another big cycle, and recovered natural levels to the low 700s. It took almost 6 months and I actually ran another pct about 3 months after finishing the first PCT, but eventually my bloods evened out and I avoided TRT for the time being.

The sluggish feeling and lack of libido, etc can be attributed to many things besides testosterone. Vitamin deficiency of pretty much any vitamin your body needs can have strange effects on the body. Vitamin D deficiency, for example, has a lot of the same symptoms as low-T. Check bloods again in a couple months and see where you stand, but like the guys have stated, a commitment to pin test literally every week for the rest of your life is no small decision.

I know I'll be on trt eventually, but for the time being, there's no reason to be chained to a syringe when my body is still capable of producing plenty.
 

EZ_E

Community Leader
VIP Moderator
Definitely do some more long term and accurate testing before making that kind of commitment bro. I have ran a ton of cycles (some of them with more gear than should be even considered reasonable) and even cruised for nearly 4 months on test and jumped into another big cycle, and recovered natural levels to the low 700s. It took almost 6 months and I actually ran another pct about 3 months after finishing the first PCT, but eventually my bloods evened out and I avoided TRT for the time being.

The sluggish feeling and lack of libido, etc can be attributed to many things besides testosterone. Vitamin deficiency of pretty much any vitamin your body needs can have strange effects on the body. Vitamin D deficiency, for example, has a lot of the same symptoms as low-T. Check bloods again in a couple months and see where you stand, but like the guys have stated, a commitment to pin test literally every week for the rest of your life is no small decision.

I know I'll be on trt eventually, but for the time being, there's no reason to be chained to a syringe when my body is still capable of producing plenty.

Well said.......................
 

[9oNe6][email protected]

Senior Member
Member
Definitely do some more long term and accurate testing before making that kind of commitment bro. I have ran a ton of cycles (some of them with more gear than should be even considered reasonable) and even cruised for nearly 4 months on test and jumped into another big cycle, and recovered natural levels to the low 700s. It took almost 6 months and I actually ran another pct about 3 months after finishing the first PCT, but eventually my bloods evened out and I avoided TRT for the time being.

The sluggish feeling and lack of libido, etc can be attributed to many things besides testosterone. Vitamin deficiency of pretty much any vitamin your body needs can have strange effects on the body. Vitamin D deficiency, for example, has a lot of the same symptoms as low-T. Check bloods again in a couple months and see where you stand, but like the guys have stated, a commitment to pin test literally every week for the rest of your life is no small decision.

I know I'll be on trt eventually, but for the time being, there's no reason to be chained to a syringe when my body is still capable of producing plenty.

Good post !
 
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