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Cycles

SpikedEggnog

Active member
In cycles people typically run 2-3 compounds together or more - for people that are experienced, ok that makes sense BUT what about people that are inexperienced - for instance, I know some people hate winny but other people seem to love it - so if everyone is different how does anyone know what works and what doesn't for certain people - because if you are taking 3 different compounds and you are having problems, how do you know which compound is not good for you? or how do you know which compound does not suit your needs as well as something else unless it is the only compound you are using? Point being - would it not be more beneficial for a beginner to use 1 compound to "test the waters" so to speak - I know the results will not be as drastic/pronounced BUT this is more about learning about your body and about how certain compounds effect you - which ones you like/dislike and for what reasons, learn about dosages and how your body reacts, etc. In this way if you find 1 single compound that suits you well and does not cause problems, then you can add other compounds to it because you have knowledge about each specific compound and how it effects your body. Again, this would be for a beginner - and I am not saying use something like DBol without a Test base - in that case they should use TEST first to gain experience/knowledge, then later add DBol once they have learned about TEST. nor do i mean using something not considered a standalone like Deca or Proviron, which are added to enchance other AAS - but if you are going to use Deca it would help to be familiar with TEST and then you could also see how DECA synergizes with TEST to learn more. Same with Proviron, you could familiarize yourself with other compounds first THEN add provi. This would also be a safer way to increase compounds/dosages. I am taking over a period of years though not months - SAFETY. In the end we are all basically guinea pigs for ourselves, so it is our choice, but Any thoughts?
 

cmb5017

Active member
Member
SpikedEggnog said:
In cycles people typically run 2-3 compounds together or more - for people that are experienced, ok that makes sense BUT what about people that are inexperienced - for instance, I know some people hate winny but other people seem to love it - so if everyone is different how does anyone know what works and what doesn't for certain people - because if you are taking 3 different compounds and you are having problems, how do you know which compound is not good for you? or how do you know which compound does not suit your needs as well as something else unless it is the only compound you are using? Point being - would it not be more beneficial for a beginner to use 1 compound to "test the waters" so to speak - I know the results will not be as drastic/pronounced BUT this is more about learning about your body and about how certain compounds effect you - which ones you like/dislike and for what reasons, learn about dosages and how your body reacts, etc. In this way if you find 1 single compound that suits you well and does not cause problems, then you can add other compounds to it because you have knowledge about each specific compound and how it effects your body. Again, this would be for a beginner - and I am not saying use something like DBol without a Test base - in that case they should use TEST first to gain experience/knowledge, then later add DBol once they have learned about TEST. nor do i mean using something not considered a standalone like Deca or Proviron, which are added to enchance other AAS - but if you are going to use Deca it would help to be familiar with TEST and then you could also see how DECA synergizes with TEST to learn more. Same with Proviron, you could familiarize yourself with other compounds first THEN add provi. This would also be a safer way to increase compounds/dosages. I am taking over a period of years though not months - SAFETY. In the end we are all basically guinea pigs for ourselves, so it is our choice, but Any thoughts?

Ive said it over n over...all test cycle first couple cycles! Try a different ester each time, keep a log of how it affects your body. Find the one that has the best ratio for results vs sides tgen u know what ur test base will be from that point on...now at that point start adding compounds.people highly underestimate how good an all test cycle can really be
 

RickRock

Community Leader
VIP Moderator
SpikedEggnog said:
In cycles people typically run 2-3 compounds together or more - for people that are experienced, ok that makes sense BUT what about people that are inexperienced - for instance, I know some people hate winny but other people seem to love it - so if everyone is different how does anyone know what works and what doesn't for certain people - because if you are taking 3 different compounds and you are having problems, how do you know which compound is not good for you? or how do you know which compound does not suit your needs as well as something else unless it is the only compound you are using? Point being - would it not be more beneficial for a beginner to use 1 compound to "test the waters" so to speak - I know the results will not be as drastic/pronounced BUT this is more about learning about your body and about how certain compounds effect you - which ones you like/dislike and for what reasons, learn about dosages and how your body reacts, etc. In this way if you find 1 single compound that suits you well and does not cause problems, then you can add other compounds to it because you have knowledge about each specific compound and how it effects your body. Again, this would be for a beginner - and I am not saying use something like DBol without a Test base - in that case they should use TEST first to gain experience/knowledge, then later add DBol once they have learned about TEST. nor do i mean using something not considered a standalone like Deca or Proviron, which are added to enchance other AAS - but if you are going to use Deca it would help to be familiar with TEST and then you could also see how DECA synergizes with TEST to learn more. Same with Proviron, you could familiarize yourself with other compounds first THEN add provi. This would also be a safer way to increase compounds/dosages. I am taking over a period of years though not months - SAFETY. In the end we are all basically guinea pigs for ourselves, so it is our choice, but Any thoughts?

When it comes to AAS, beginners should always be starting with test only. That is always the recommendation other than maybe adding some sarms which don't carry the side effects of AAS and are perfectly fine to add in at any time. The next cycle they could add another compound, but just one is ideal to see how you react to that compound. The first time you run any certain AAS, you should be running it with nothing else other than maybe test, to see how your body responds to it. Once you get a good feel after a few cycles of how your body starts responding to certain compounds, you can go up to a multiple compound stack. Even with that, you don't necessarily need to stack a bunch of different stuff. I've been cycling about 5 years now, and I still mostly run two compounds at a time, 3 at most. You find what works and stick to that. More doesn't necessarily mean better
 

SpikedEggnog

Active member
cmb5017 said:
SpikedEggnog said:
In cycles people typically run 2-3 compounds together or more - for people that are experienced, ok that makes sense BUT what about people that are inexperienced - for instance, I know some people hate winny but other people seem to love it - so if everyone is different how does anyone know what works and what doesn't for certain people - because if you are taking 3 different compounds and you are having problems, how do you know which compound is not good for you? or how do you know which compound does not suit your needs as well as something else unless it is the only compound you are using? Point being - would it not be more beneficial for a beginner to use 1 compound to "test the waters" so to speak - I know the results will not be as drastic/pronounced BUT this is more about learning about your body and about how certain compounds effect you - which ones you like/dislike and for what reasons, learn about dosages and how your body reacts, etc. In this way if you find 1 single compound that suits you well and does not cause problems, then you can add other compounds to it because you have knowledge about each specific compound and how it effects your body. Again, this would be for a beginner - and I am not saying use something like DBol without a Test base - in that case they should use TEST first to gain experience/knowledge, then later add DBol once they have learned about TEST. nor do i mean using something not considered a standalone like Deca or Proviron, which are added to enchance other AAS - but if you are going to use Deca it would help to be familiar with TEST and then you could also see how DECA synergizes with TEST to learn more. Same with Proviron, you could familiarize yourself with other compounds first THEN add provi. This would also be a safer way to increase compounds/dosages. I am taking over a period of years though not months - SAFETY. In the end we are all basically guinea pigs for ourselves, so it is our choice, but Any thoughts?

Ive said it over n over...all test cycle first couple cycles! Try a different ester each time, keep a log of how it affects your body. Find the one that has the best ratio for results vs sides tgen u know what ur test base will be from that point on...now at that point start adding compounds.people highly underestimate how good an all test cycle can really be

yes but i mean after TEST - i am on TRT atm so this is why i bring this up because people can add 1-2 compounds with TEST plus add SARMS and it gets to be a lot of stuff for a beginner - so what I was thinking is basically the same thing you said - just add 1 compound after TEST base and record data.
 

SpikedEggnog

Active member
RickRock said:
SpikedEggnog said:
In cycles people typically run 2-3 compounds together or more - for people that are experienced, ok that makes sense BUT what about people that are inexperienced - for instance, I know some people hate winny but other people seem to love it - so if everyone is different how does anyone know what works and what doesn't for certain people - because if you are taking 3 different compounds and you are having problems, how do you know which compound is not good for you? or how do you know which compound does not suit your needs as well as something else unless it is the only compound you are using? Point being - would it not be more beneficial for a beginner to use 1 compound to "test the waters" so to speak - I know the results will not be as drastic/pronounced BUT this is more about learning about your body and about how certain compounds effect you - which ones you like/dislike and for what reasons, learn about dosages and how your body reacts, etc. In this way if you find 1 single compound that suits you well and does not cause problems, then you can add other compounds to it because you have knowledge about each specific compound and how it effects your body. Again, this would be for a beginner - and I am not saying use something like DBol without a Test base - in that case they should use TEST first to gain experience/knowledge, then later add DBol once they have learned about TEST. nor do i mean using something not considered a standalone like Deca or Proviron, which are added to enchance other AAS - but if you are going to use Deca it would help to be familiar with TEST and then you could also see how DECA synergizes with TEST to learn more. Same with Proviron, you could familiarize yourself with other compounds first THEN add provi. This would also be a safer way to increase compounds/dosages. I am taking over a period of years though not months - SAFETY. In the end we are all basically guinea pigs for ourselves, so it is our choice, but Any thoughts?

When it comes to AAS, beginners should always be starting with test only. That is always the recommendation other than maybe adding some sarms which don't carry the side effects of AAS and are perfectly fine to add in at any time. The next cycle they could add another compound, but just one is ideal to see how you react to that compound. The first time you run any certain AAS, you should be running it with nothing else other than maybe test, to see how your body responds to it. Once you get a good feel after a few cycles of how your body starts responding to certain compounds, you can go up to a multiple compound stack. Even with that, you don't necessarily need to stack a bunch of different stuff. I've been cycling about 5 years now, and I still mostly run two compounds at a time, 3 at most. You find what works and stick to that. More doesn't necessarily mean better

True - ok so you basically agree with what i said then. what i was really trying to point out was a cycle that has TEST and 1-2 other AAS plus SARMS gets to be a lot of stuff so even adding test and another aas plus sarms is too much for me because i dont know how SARMS affects me plus any other aas (besides test at this point, i am on trt in case u forget). so thats why i was thinking 1 compound at a time because you need to understand each compound and how it affects your body, either positive or negative, and get more knowledge/experience before you do multiple compounds. and i have ideas of stuff i would like to try in the future as i have posted in previous threads BUT i dont want to try a stack om compounds - which is why i brought this up - i want to try 1 compound with my TRT. first i am trying SARMS though
 

cmb5017

Active member
Member
SpikedEggnog said:
cmb5017 said:
SpikedEggnog said:
In cycles people typically run 2-3 compounds together or more - for people that are experienced, ok that makes sense BUT what about people that are inexperienced - for instance, I know some people hate winny but other people seem to love it - so if everyone is different how does anyone know what works and what doesn't for certain people - because if you are taking 3 different compounds and you are having problems, how do you know which compound is not good for you? or how do you know which compound does not suit your needs as well as something else unless it is the only compound you are using? Point being - would it not be more beneficial for a beginner to use 1 compound to "test the waters" so to speak - I know the results will not be as drastic/pronounced BUT this is more about learning about your body and about how certain compounds effect you - which ones you like/dislike and for what reasons, learn about dosages and how your body reacts, etc. In this way if you find 1 single compound that suits you well and does not cause problems, then you can add other compounds to it because you have knowledge about each specific compound and how it effects your body. Again, this would be for a beginner - and I am not saying use something like DBol without a Test base - in that case they should use TEST first to gain experience/knowledge, then later add DBol once they have learned about TEST. nor do i mean using something not considered a standalone like Deca or Proviron, which are added to enchance other AAS - but if you are going to use Deca it would help to be familiar with TEST and then you could also see how DECA synergizes with TEST to learn more. Same with Proviron, you could familiarize yourself with other compounds first THEN add provi. This would also be a safer way to increase compounds/dosages. I am taking over a period of years though not months - SAFETY. In the end we are all basically guinea pigs for ourselves, so it is our choice, but Any thoughts?

Ive said it over n over...all test cycle first couple cycles! Try a different ester each time, keep a log of how it affects your body. Find the one that has the best ratio for results vs sides tgen u know what ur test base will be from that point on...now at that point start adding compounds.people highly underestimate how good an all test cycle can really be

yes but i mean after TEST - i am on TRT atm so this is why i bring this up because people can add 1-2 compounds with TEST plus add SARMS and it gets to be a lot of stuff for a beginner - so what I was thinking is basically the same thing you said - just add 1 compound after TEST base and record data.

Well main question would be, whats your goal? If size or mass is your concern id add an oral to your test. If lean or strength is goal a good one would be EQ. The only compunds that have ever been "rough" for me is anadrol 50 and tren..but keep in mind were talking the most toxic of orals and strongest of oils. Neither of which your ready for right now. Tbol and EQ seem to be very mild and tolerable for most people
 

drb_iac

Active member
I will answer this question from drb in 1968. "I have no fucking idea" There was no internet, no cell phones. Only corded phones with you and your neighbor sharing the same phone number and line. Info was handed down thru the ranks. In the case of my group we had a big brother trying out for the olympic powerlifting team. Here is what he said, and this is what we did. And it still makes sense today.
First cycle-you must be over 25, and not be fat. You take 200mg test cyp and 200mg deca. Done. You go 12 weeks .done. If at any point there is a side, we may lower one or the other or both to 100/100mg.

Next cycle. There was no such thing as pct. You tapered down or ramped down as we called. So week 10 was 150/150. Week 12 was 100/100. That was all the info there was. No one suffered in my group of 8.
The younger brother took other advice, that his brother told only him. He got 200/200 and 20mg dbol. Guess who looked like the hulk?

Next cycle had to to come no sooner than 3.5 months since last injection and was to be same gear 200/200/+20dbol

Next cycle 3.5 months latter 200/200/40dbol.

We also got crazy and did just 50mg dbol as a cycle. Stand alone. We all got big. No sides. Maybe it could have been worse, but we were daring.

That is how it went. You have so so so much more info at your finger tips now, and already know way way more than I did until 25 years latter, and many cycles under my belt. I was told we screwed ourselves up..no pct. Simply was not true.
So you always start right there..the all time, all american 200/200. Simple is best. As you progress you can just add to the amounts before or add something new.
One guy never did any oral until he had hit 500/500. Then backed down to 300/300 and added dbol.

If you cannot lay on some slabs of beef with deca test and dbol then pack your shit and go home..that was the motto.We are now all old and all in very good shape.

So for your first cycle--are you cautious? Ok then 100/100. See the trend? Today you also have gear I never had. Primo, eq etc.. Test/eq, or test/winny etc.
 

RickRock

Community Leader
VIP Moderator
Re: RE: Re: Cycles

SpikedEggnog said:
RickRock said:
SpikedEggnog said:
In cycles people typically run 2-3 compounds together or more - for people that are experienced, ok that makes sense BUT what about people that are inexperienced - for instance, I know some people hate winny but other people seem to love it - so if everyone is different how does anyone know what works and what doesn't for certain people - because if you are taking 3 different compounds and you are having problems, how do you know which compound is not good for you? or how do you know which compound does not suit your needs as well as something else unless it is the only compound you are using? Point being - would it not be more beneficial for a beginner to use 1 compound to "test the waters" so to speak - I know the results will not be as drastic/pronounced BUT this is more about learning about your body and about how certain compounds effect you - which ones you like/dislike and for what reasons, learn about dosages and how your body reacts, etc. In this way if you find 1 single compound that suits you well and does not cause problems, then you can add other compounds to it because you have knowledge about each specific compound and how it effects your body. Again, this would be for a beginner - and I am not saying use something like DBol without a Test base - in that case they should use TEST first to gain experience/knowledge, then later add DBol once they have learned about TEST. nor do i mean using something not considered a standalone like Deca or Proviron, which are added to enchance other AAS - but if you are going to use Deca it would help to be familiar with TEST and then you could also see how DECA synergizes with TEST to learn more. Same with Proviron, you could familiarize yourself with other compounds first THEN add provi. This would also be a safer way to increase compounds/dosages. I am taking over a period of years though not months - SAFETY. In the end we are all basically guinea pigs for ourselves, so it is our choice, but Any thoughts?

When it comes to AAS, beginners should always be starting with test only. That is always the recommendation other than maybe adding some sarms which don't carry the side effects of AAS and are perfectly fine to add in at any time. The next cycle they could add another compound, but just one is ideal to see how you react to that compound. The first time you run any certain AAS, you should be running it with nothing else other than maybe test, to see how your body responds to it. Once you get a good feel after a few cycles of how your body starts responding to certain compounds, you can go up to a multiple compound stack. Even with that, you don't necessarily need to stack a bunch of different stuff. I've been cycling about 5 years now, and I still mostly run two compounds at a time, 3 at most. You find what works and stick to that. More doesn't necessarily mean better

True - ok so you basically agree with what i said then. what i was really trying to point out was a cycle that has TEST and 1-2 other AAS plus SARMS gets to be a lot of stuff so even adding test and another aas plus sarms is too much for me because i dont know how SARMS affects me plus any other aas (besides test at this point, i am on trt in case u forget). so thats why i was thinking 1 compound at a time because you need to understand each compound and how it affects your body, either positive or negative, and get more knowledge/experience before you do multiple compounds. and i have ideas of stuff i would like to try in the future as i have posted in previous threads BUT i dont want to try a stack om compounds - which is why i brought this up - i want to try 1 compound with my TRT. first i am trying SARMS though
You have the right mentality bro. That's a very smart way to go about things and it would be great if more people thought that way, rather than jumping into a stack of as much shit they can cram into a cycle
 

SpikedEggnog

Active member
cmb5017 said:
SpikedEggnog said:
cmb5017 said:
SpikedEggnog said:
In cycles people typically run 2-3 compounds together or more - for people that are experienced, ok that makes sense BUT what about people that are inexperienced - for instance, I know some people hate winny but other people seem to love it - so if everyone is different how does anyone know what works and what doesn't for certain people - because if you are taking 3 different compounds and you are having problems, how do you know which compound is not good for you? or how do you know which compound does not suit your needs as well as something else unless it is the only compound you are using? Point being - would it not be more beneficial for a beginner to use 1 compound to "test the waters" so to speak - I know the results will not be as drastic/pronounced BUT this is more about learning about your body and about how certain compounds effect you - which ones you like/dislike and for what reasons, learn about dosages and how your body reacts, etc. In this way if you find 1 single compound that suits you well and does not cause problems, then you can add other compounds to it because you have knowledge about each specific compound and how it effects your body. Again, this would be for a beginner - and I am not saying use something like DBol without a Test base - in that case they should use TEST first to gain experience/knowledge, then later add DBol once they have learned about TEST. nor do i mean using something not considered a standalone like Deca or Proviron, which are added to enchance other AAS - but if you are going to use Deca it would help to be familiar with TEST and then you could also see how DECA synergizes with TEST to learn more. Same with Proviron, you could familiarize yourself with other compounds first THEN add provi. This would also be a safer way to increase compounds/dosages. I am taking over a period of years though not months - SAFETY. In the end we are all basically guinea pigs for ourselves, so it is our choice, but Any thoughts?

Ive said it over n over...all test cycle first couple cycles! Try a different ester each time, keep a log of how it affects your body. Find the one that has the best ratio for results vs sides tgen u know what ur test base will be from that point on...now at that point start adding compounds.people highly underestimate how good an all test cycle can really be

yes but i mean after TEST - i am on TRT atm so this is why i bring this up because people can add 1-2 compounds with TEST plus add SARMS and it gets to be a lot of stuff for a beginner - so what I was thinking is basically the same thing you said - just add 1 compound after TEST base and record data.

Well main question would be, whats your goal? If size or mass is your concern id add an oral to your test. If lean or strength is goal a good one would be EQ. The only compunds that have ever been "rough" for me is anadrol 50 and tren..but keep in mind were talking the most toxic of orals and strongest of oils. Neither of which your ready for right now. Tbol and EQ seem to be very mild and tolerable for most people

right now its SARMS but afterwards, my concern is to just learn about 1 compound at a time, whether its mass or leaning out, i am not too concerned as long as i learn safely
 

SpikedEggnog

Active member
drb_iac said:
I will answer this question from drb in 1968. "I have no fucking idea" There was no internet, no cell phones. Only corded phones with you and your neighbor sharing the same phone number and line. Info was handed down thru the ranks. In the case of my group we had a big brother trying out for the olympic powerlifting team. Here is what he said, and this is what we did. And it still makes sense today.
First cycle-you must be over 25, and not be fat. You take 200mg test cyp and 200mg deca. Done. You go 12 weeks .done. If at any point there is a side, we may lower one or the other or both to 100/100mg.

Next cycle. There was no such thing as pct. You tapered down or ramped down as we called. So week 10 was 150/150. Week 12 was 100/100. That was all the info there was. No one suffered in my group of 8.
The younger brother took other advice, that his brother told only him. He got 200/200 and 20mg dbol. Guess who looked like the hulk?

Next cycle had to to come no sooner than 3.5 months since last injection and was to be same gear 200/200/+20dbol

Next cycle 3.5 months latter 200/200/40dbol.

We also got crazy and did just 50mg dbol as a cycle. Stand alone. We all got big. No sides. Maybe it could have been worse, but we were daring.

That is how it went. You have so so so much more info at your finger tips now, and already know way way more than I did until 25 years latter, and many cycles under my belt. I was told we screwed ourselves up..no pct. Simply was not true.
So you always start right there..the all time, all american 200/200. Simple is best. As you progress you can just add to the amounts before or add something new.
One guy never did any oral until he had hit 500/500. Then backed down to 300/300 and added dbol.

If you cannot lay on some slabs of beef with deca test and dbol then pack your shit and go home..that was the motto.We are now all old and all in very good shape.

So for your first cycle--are you cautious? Ok then 100/100. See the trend? Today you also have gear I never had. Primo, eq etc.. Test/eq, or test/winny etc.

thanks man. and i know youre a big fan of test + deca - i will try Deca sometime, plus i heard it helps your joints which sounds good. and as you stated in the beginning i would do low dosages like 200. but my question is some people like running Deca higher then Test, but you run them even dosing, why do you like to be even?
 

SpikedEggnog

Active member
Re: RE: Re: Cycles

RickRock said:
SpikedEggnog said:
RickRock said:
SpikedEggnog said:
In cycles people typically run 2-3 compounds together or more - for people that are experienced, ok that makes sense BUT what about people that are inexperienced - for instance, I know some people hate winny but other people seem to love it - so if everyone is different how does anyone know what works and what doesn't for certain people - because if you are taking 3 different compounds and you are having problems, how do you know which compound is not good for you? or how do you know which compound does not suit your needs as well as something else unless it is the only compound you are using? Point being - would it not be more beneficial for a beginner to use 1 compound to "test the waters" so to speak - I know the results will not be as drastic/pronounced BUT this is more about learning about your body and about how certain compounds effect you - which ones you like/dislike and for what reasons, learn about dosages and how your body reacts, etc. In this way if you find 1 single compound that suits you well and does not cause problems, then you can add other compounds to it because you have knowledge about each specific compound and how it effects your body. Again, this would be for a beginner - and I am not saying use something like DBol without a Test base - in that case they should use TEST first to gain experience/knowledge, then later add DBol once they have learned about TEST. nor do i mean using something not considered a standalone like Deca or Proviron, which are added to enchance other AAS - but if you are going to use Deca it would help to be familiar with TEST and then you could also see how DECA synergizes with TEST to learn more. Same with Proviron, you could familiarize yourself with other compounds first THEN add provi. This would also be a safer way to increase compounds/dosages. I am taking over a period of years though not months - SAFETY. In the end we are all basically guinea pigs for ourselves, so it is our choice, but Any thoughts?

When it comes to AAS, beginners should always be starting with test only. That is always the recommendation other than maybe adding some sarms which don't carry the side effects of AAS and are perfectly fine to add in at any time. The next cycle they could add another compound, but just one is ideal to see how you react to that compound. The first time you run any certain AAS, you should be running it with nothing else other than maybe test, to see how your body responds to it. Once you get a good feel after a few cycles of how your body starts responding to certain compounds, you can go up to a multiple compound stack. Even with that, you don't necessarily need to stack a bunch of different stuff. I've been cycling about 5 years now, and I still mostly run two compounds at a time, 3 at most. You find what works and stick to that. More doesn't necessarily mean better

True - ok so you basically agree with what i said then. what i was really trying to point out was a cycle that has TEST and 1-2 other AAS plus SARMS gets to be a lot of stuff so even adding test and another aas plus sarms is too much for me because i dont know how SARMS affects me plus any other aas (besides test at this point, i am on trt in case u forget). so thats why i was thinking 1 compound at a time because you need to understand each compound and how it affects your body, either positive or negative, and get more knowledge/experience before you do multiple compounds. and i have ideas of stuff i would like to try in the future as i have posted in previous threads BUT i dont want to try a stack om compounds - which is why i brought this up - i want to try 1 compound with my TRT. first i am trying SARMS though
You have the right mentality bro. That's a very smart way to go about things and it would be great if more people thought that way, rather than jumping into a stack of as much shit they can cram into a cycle

thanks - and dude I know it's all about diet and training, they are called "Enchancement" for a reason, they just amplify whatever you put in. Dude I got great gains off 100mg Test - people say that wont do crap but I gained 10-15lbs AND dropped a lil bodyfat from hitting my diet and training hard.
 
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