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Your liver and the toxicity of oral AAS.

Androman

Member
Some of you may already know this but this thread is to inform the misinformed about the toxicity of oral anabolic steroid use. I'm writing this thread because I was running anadrol @ 100mg ED and had to stop because my food wasn't digesting and led to becoming constipated, had really bad gas, and when I was able to go to the bathroom my stool would float, or have a little bit of oil in it, this as some of you know is called Steatorrhea, which is caused by the lack of bile acids (we will get to that in just a second) And YES I was taking liver protectant but not TUDCA. Liv-52 is garbage, everything but TUDCA for liver protectant is garbage! (Keep in mind Im on 500mg of tren enth and have really bad insomnia, couple Unisom tablets to the face and no effect, so this will help kill time)

First things first, when you run an ORAL AAS, be sure to have Tauroursodeoxycholic Acid AKA TUDCA on hand. If you cant get TUDCA, then dont run the oral. There is research on TUDCA being highly effective in treating specific steroid induced cholestasis. You can find it anywhere, its cheap & IT WORKS. Don't be CHEAP. IF YOU DONT TAKE PROPER PRECAUTIONS, REALITY WILL SET IN.

"By failing to prepare, you prepare to fail."

Taking TUDCA can maybe even absorb more of the oral AAS you digest. YES! It can possibly increase the bioavailability of the oral anabolic BECAUSE it prevents CHOLESTASIS. Meaning it helps keep the liver working how its supposed to work without stopping or slowing down bile flow.

SO WHATS CHOLESTASIS? Cholestasis is an enlargement of periportal hepatocytes, high levels of AST, ALT, & GGT (as some of you may know already; a not so good liver) and also happens when the bile flow in your liver gets all FUCKED UP, and slows down or possibly STOPS. And BILE is an extremely important element in our liver, because bile acts as a waste removal. It removes all the shit, good and bad, that your liver creates from all the work it is doing all day everyday. BASICALLY IT CLEANSES YOUR LIVER. SO YOU NEED BILE MOVEMENT FOR A FUNCTIONAL LIVER. Bile is also very crucial to our digestion, especially of fats. When you eat food, it is stored in the gall bladder and then pumped into this upper section of this small intenstine called duodenum, and in turn this helps digest the food being eaten and helps break down the fats and all that other good stuff.
Remember when I said I was constipated because my food couldnt digest? This is what was happening. YOU DO NOT WANT THAT. But I was smart enough to know what was happening and what I needed to do.

Now when a liver gets DAMAGED by running oral anabolics, the liver is PUTTING IN TOO MUCH DAMN WORK from processing the shit you decided to swallow that supposedly turns you into Superman or a fucking Greek God. In result, this causes a slooooooow down of the bile flow in the liver. Remember how important bile flow was? And what is this impairment of bile flow called? THATS RIGHT! Cholestasis! Now youre listening.

Now when cholestasis happens, BILE ACID (which acts as soaps that carry away the toxins and flush them into the intestines for excretion, theyre known as the liver's cleansing agents), will start to damage and fuck up your liver cells, so bile acid is VERY toxic to the liver if its not doing its thing since its restricted, after it fucks up your liver cells, then comes apoptosis, which is when the cells start dying, after that comes necrosis; this is when all the cells in your beautiful loving reddish brown rubbery-to-the-touch 3lb liver are dead....

All you have to do to avoid all this is keep the bile flowing & working the way its supposed to. The liver needs to keep whipping the bile through the liver itself and its cells in order to clean out all the shit, good and bad, from all the biochemical processes the liver itself is doing all day everyday.

Miberlone, Superdrol, M1T all that "good shit", some of you guys like to talk about every now and then is obviously extremely difficult for the body to clear. One more thing about miberlone or cheque drops, it is known as the non-metabolizable androgen. Do you know what the metabolite of cheque drops in humans is? UNCHANGED MIBERLONE. Think of it as like the ONE HITTER QUITTER for you liver..Dude, seriously you only have ONE liver. You fucked that one up, and in return that shit is going to fuck YOU up.

How do you avoid all this horror? Easy. You can take your TUDCA, TUDCA can increase the synthesis of hydrophilic bile acids from cholesterol, which in turns decreases the toxins of the entire bile pool. Its proven to activate the PXR/SXR nuclear receptors in your liver cells, which activates bile acid metabolizing enzymes. Now IDK what exactly are PXR/SXR nuclear receptors, but to me they sound like they are something you want activated, for the sake and health of your liver. TUDCA is POTENT at preventing 17 AA oral induced liver damage. The dose is usually 1g to 1.2g, before during and after cycle/blast.

DO NOT RUN ORALS WITHOUT TUDCA. FORGET YOUR MILK THISTLE, FORGET SILYMARIN & SILYBIN. Yes theyre great ANTIOXIDANTS, but they are WEAK protection and aren't a considerable treatment for cholestasis since they cant do shit on bile impairment.

NAC on the otherhand is also a nice antioxidant, but its BUNK. It suffers extremely poor bioavailability. Liv-52? BUNK TOO, its just a blend of weak ass antioxidants. These are all a waste a money. TUDCA is what you NEED. TUDCA is what you WANT.

Jaundice, reduced appetite, amber colored piss, fever or nausea, and bloody stool are all signs that are telling you you have to go to the ER. These are symptoms of a serious liver issue. And if this does happen it means you have waited too long.

But this should not happen to any of you, my brothers, since intellect is power, and the power here is the ability to control your own health, and choose your own destiny. You only have one liver. Take care of it and it'll take care of you.
 
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You mentioned taking TUDKA before during and after your oral run. Are you recommending just taking it daily regardless if you're running an oral or not?

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Maybe a link too a good TUDCA brand and supplier as all supplaments dont have the concentrations they claim or even the ingredients for that matter . wich one do you like and where do you get it
 
Man sorry to hear about your bad experience. Dylan did a vid just a week or so ago and posted it here.Everyone should go back and read the comments and posts.

This why when DrB told me to think about stopping orals I was a little pissed at first because I loved winny. He showed me numerous real scientific studies, not to mention that my aunt is an endocrinologist, who introduced drb to a hepatologist well versed in aas toxicity.
Basically DrB told me that if I cannot accomplish my goals using cyp-deca-primo-eq-sus-mast, then I need to re-think my efforts,ethics,workouts diet etc.
I listened and believe him to be correct that orals are not worth it. He also said that every single one of us will come to the day when we will know for sure,that orals are not for us.

I did after all get into pretty good shape with NOTHING. So now with sarms out, and the good injectables it is time for us all to re think orals use.

TUDCA has not and never will be approved in the USA as the FDA will not allow its use. The fact is that tudca can make orals more bioavailable is NOT a good thing.
Here is what that means..the liver struggles its ass off to defeat the oral but the liver losses the fight each and every time. Now you take tudca along with an oral and the liver has to fight even harder because the toxin is now putting up a better fight. This leads to even higher liver enzymes.

The fda does like tudca because they think it give alcoholics a false sense of security...meaning hey I have cirrohsis or on my way to it but I will take tudca. No don't...it makes things worse. Tudca works better when NOT taken with the toxin. So off cycle.
Alcoholics thinking they can drink and take tudca will go to an early grave.
Bottom line...think about your own flesh and body bros and decide for yourself if it is worth this risk...when we know for a FACT that the tried and true deca-test cycle has been used , even abused, and has proven over and over for years and years to be safe and effective.

Here is a nice link on tudca. Don't click on the disclaimer because it will say.. "everything we just said about tudca is BS".
It is your body,your soul,so think it out.

http://examine.com/supplements/Tauroursodeoxycholic+Acid/
 
This is a great topic and maybe time for all of us to go into retrospect. Many years ago when in college I was a blazing fast WR. Problem was that I knew that once I caught the ball there would be two big mo fos at 250lbs waiting to smash my 175lb frame. Consequently I caught about 90% of my passes. I hoped to turn pro, but my dad pulled me aside one day, one of those special Dad talks, and told me the truth. I thought I was going to hear "this is the cycle to make the NFL". If he would have said look if you do a test/deca/tren/halo/dbol cycle you will get drafted, I would have jumped all over it. Instead I got a dose of tough love.

Now I make a living by sitting on my ass as a human resource director. I am not going to the wwe, ufc, olympics,or nfl. Therefore I look over my cycle carefully.
I make no money because I am buffed and ripped..nothing, nada. Therefore I take no risks. I also liked winstrol, but when I first heard of liver toxins, and felt lethargic on it I canned it.

I am not so much a BB as many of you are, and we all may have different goals, but if there is no fortune to made why take any risk?

I never did venture into the heavy gear like tren,dbol,halo,adrol etc. My cycles are 250 test, 150 deca, and 600 of either primo or eq. That is it, all it has ever been, and will always be that way. Of course many people of the ordinary world would think that I am crazy too. So we all have to decide.

Just my humble opin, but I do not see the need for orals,or any heavies. My fav...NO SIDES, and feeling great!
 
Just saying my wrecked bloods I just posted had liver in normal range and that's on anadrol and tren, using only Liv52 and cycle support. I don't think it's junk.

Sent from the NY ROBO house of GAINZZZZ

Yeah, the product has worked for many.
 
Ive been doing tons of research on Orals, and it seems to me that the Toxicity issues are way overblown. Study after study with Anadrol shows most people don't even go out of the Normal range on there Liver values with 4 weeks of use. German research shows that Alt values only start rising outside of normal for Tbol after a years continued use. Drinking a beer a day is far worse for your liver then Oral use IMO.
 
Ive been doing tons of research on Orals, and it seems to me that the Toxicity issues are way overblown. Study after study with Anadrol shows most people don't even go out of the Normal range on there Liver values with 4 weeks of use. German research shows that Alt values only start rising outside of normal for Tbol after a years continued use. Drinking a beer a day is far worse for your liver then Oral use IMO.

Yeah, I've also done my research and many of the findings showed that for people with healthy, fully functioning livers, ranges do not really get too overblown given the dosage isn't super extreme and for a prolonged period of time. Also, the liver tends to recover relatively quickly once the toxic oral is removed from the system, given the user stays fully hydrated and doesn't consume mass amounts of alcohol or pain killers.
 
Let's put things in perspective. Orals have been used since before the 60's, and have a pretty good track record. The studies that show no liver enzyme elevation are usually flawed because they do not stay elevated, and just like alcohol if you do not drink for 12 hours your enzymes are back to normal. Elevated enzymes do not mean liver damage or death, but simply that the liver had a struggle. When you feel lethargic then you are temporatily tired and will re group. You always get over that hangover even when your enzymes went sky high. The liver is a very tough organ.
I would say tylenol can kill you quicker that orals, and certainly booze is the worst.
Let's just try to keep everything in perspective, so that we can make intelligent decisions. Also as far as I know there is nothing that you can take that will lessen the battle between liver and oral. It cannot be proven either way. Only liver biopsy or autopsy can prove anything. The argument over supplements working or not, or orals hurting the liver or not ,cannot really be proven one way or the other. You can live long and feel good yet still have a damaged liver.It is the percent of damage that can become a problem.

There will be a time in your life that orals will make you feel shitty, and you will swear them off. You will feel some toll they take on an older system. Just like booze..I used to be able to down a few and have fun but now I just get groggy and tired, so I do not do it anymore. Same with orals..I simply do not need them.

Everyone makes their own decision, so if you feel informed and ok with orals then go for it...I surely did!

http://livertox.nih.gov/AndrogenicSteroids.htm
 
Let's put things in perspective. Orals have been used since before the 60's, and have a pretty good track record. The studies that show no liver enzyme elevation are usually flawed because they do not stay elevated, and just like alcohol if you do not drink for 12 hours your enzymes are back to normal. Elevated enzymes do not mean liver damage or death, but simply that the liver had a struggle. When you feel lethargic then you are temporatily tired and will re group. You always get over that hangover even when your enzymes went sky high. The liver is a very tough organ.
I would say tylenol can kill you quicker that orals, and certainly booze is the worst.
Let's just try to keep everything in perspective, so that we can make intelligent decisions. Also as far as I know there is nothing that you can take that will lessen the battle between liver and oral. It cannot be proven either way. Only liver biopsy or autopsy can prove anything. The argument over supplements working or not, or orals hurting the liver or not ,cannot really be proven one way or the other. You can live long and feel good yet still have a damaged liver.It is the percent of damage that can become a problem.

There will be a time in your life that orals will make you feel shitty, and you will swear them off. You will feel some toll they take on an older system. Just like booze..I used to be able to down a few and have fun but now I just get groggy and tired, so I do not do it anymore. Same with orals..I simply do not need them.

Everyone makes their own decision, so if you feel informed and ok with orals then go for it...I surely did!

http://livertox.nih.gov/AndrogenicSteroids.htm
I agree for the most part. It does add stress on the liver. I feel if you don't feel lethargic or have issues there is no reason to discontinue responsible use. On any substance you should be willing to just discontinue at a drop of a hat if you have complications. When I ran epi I felt like shit after two weeks dropped it and felt great a few days later. Ran tbol and felt sky high good and that was a six week run. Will continue to run Tbol until my body says no more. Love me some tbol.

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TUDCA has not and never will be approved in the USA as the FDA will not allow its use. The fact is that tudca can make orals more bioavailable is NOT a good thing.
Here is what that means..the liver struggles its ass off to defeat the oral but the liver losses the fight each and every time. Now you take tudca along with an oral and the liver has to fight even harder because the toxin is now putting up a better fight. This leads to even higher liver enzymes.

The fda does like tudca because they think it give alcoholics a false sense of security...meaning hey I have cirrohsis or on my way to it but I will take tudca. No don't...it makes things worse. Tudca works better when NOT taken with the toxin. So off cycle.
Alcoholics thinking they can drink and take tudca will go to an early grave.
Bottom line...think about your own flesh and body bros and decide for yourself if it is worth this risk...when we know for a FACT that the tried and true deca-test cycle has been used , even abused, and has proven over and over for years and years to be safe and effective.

Here is a nice link on tudca. Don't click on the disclaimer because it will say.. "everything we just said about tudca is BS".
It is your body,your soul,so think it out.

http://examine.com/supplements/Tauroursodeoxycholic+Acid/

This is where I'm confused. I would think TUDCA would actually help the liver cleanse itself of the toxin. Not make it worse. Wouldn't NOT taking it make it worse? Since your liver is basically overloaded and when it stops working or slows down cholestasis happens. Doesn't tudca HELP the bile flow work the way it's supposed to so your liver can remove the c17 without fucking itself up? I don't understand how the oral would put up a better fight if it's being metabolized quicker and not causing bile impairment.



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Just saying my wrecked bloods I just posted had liver in normal range and that's on anadrol and tren, using only Liv52 and cycle support. I don't think it's junk.

Sent from the NY ROBO house of GAINZZZZ

When I experience he indigestion I was on liv52 too.


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I just don't want any of you's to experience what I did. Because if that can happen then I'm sure a lot of other things can happen too. Maybe liver toxicity is blown out of proportion but it still can happen. And I want to inform you guys how the liver itself works and what can happen to it if you're not taking proper precaution when running oral Anabolics.


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Great post and I agree with it completely. I think a lot of people don't take the toxicity of oral AAS serious enough. As I've gotten older, I've rethinked a lot about orals and for the most part I have dropped them. This last run I did, I started off with some anadrol but dropped it after about 3 weeks and never ran a finisher or anything.

I still like a little winstrol, but for the most part I think I'm going to stay away from orals going forward


(PM me for a price list for Biotech Labs and 10% discount)
 
This is where I'm confused. I would think TUDCA would actually help the liver cleanse itself of the toxin. Not make it worse. Wouldn't NOT taking it make it worse? Since your liver is basically overloaded and when it stops working or slows down cholestasis happens. Doesn't tudca HELP the bile flow work the way it's supposed to so your liver can remove the c17 without fucking itself up? I don't understand how the oral would put up a better fight if it's being metabolized quicker and not causing bile impairment.



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I am no expert here and I am only repeating conversations with drb. The tudca is not good while on orals but you should begin it immeditely AFTER orals.It is a good cleanser.It is good for cholestasis, but that can be caused from quite a few things including cholesterol medications, and is not one of the first symtoms of oral damage. Hopefully your intake of orals will never take you this far because you will be getting gradually more yellow.The best way to check for yellow is in the mirror and stick your tongue out as far as possible.Look under the tongue for the yellow tint that begins cholestasis. The very first signs of liver DAMAGE is fatigue and just feeling very ill and lethargic. So the actual liver damage we may experience is actually not a lot of concern, since we may never know of it. You can do more damage by taking 2 extra strength tylenols 5 times/day then 4 weeks of an oral.

If what you had was indeed caused by adrol then I would be surprised. As for stools the floaters are a sign of liver malfunction of digesting fats, not liver damage. You are just changing the way the liver goes about its business. This is what cholesterol meds do..it makes the liver stop making so much cholesterol and that is why over the long haul some people may then get liver damage...which usually can reverse itself. The sign of actual liver damage is a black tar like stool.

So my point is that there is a difference between liver function changes as opposed to damage. You had a function change but probably no damage, but you can see how bad you feel whenever it involves the liver.I have heard that chirossis is one of the most horrible deaths.

So if we use sensibility and watch the dose and duration of orals we should be ok. My guess is that the lack of bile acid that you experienced was caused by eith something else or the combo of an oral and lets say anti cholesterol meds, or alcohol etc
 
I just don't want any of you's to experience what I did. Because if that can happen then I'm sure a lot of other things can happen too. Maybe liver toxicity is blown out of proportion but it still can happen. And I want to inform you guys how the liver itself works and what can happen to it if you're not taking proper precaution when running oral Anabolics.


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For sure bro...you do not want to experience liver problems...they make you sicker than sick. I am glad that you posted this.It should be a wake up call.Just be aware.
 
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