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Thread: MK-677: The power of the compound compels you!

  1. #11
    Senior Member Blue_Shine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vewq View Post
    Man.. This is so damn awesome for me to hear. I'm going into ACL reconstructive surgery in about 2 month, reading this is really helpful & makes me even more confident I will smash recovery records and be at 110% quickly! Cheers!!
    Depending on the injury extent and kinetics, as well as your opted procedure (implant vs synthetic) - an average person will be predicted to recover after 4-6 months with physio.

    I have had experience with athletes attaining full recovery and training for their events in under 3 months.

    I have also seen athletes supplementing hGH recovering in under 90 days (!!!); MK-677, providing it has been dosed for a while, is predicted to have a similar effect.

    Good post. Thanks for putting it out there for us

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_Shine View Post
    Depending on the injury extent and kinetics, as well as your opted procedure (implant vs synthetic) - an average person will be predicted to recover after 4-6 months with physio.

    I have had experience with athletes attaining full recovery and training for their events in under 3 months.

    I have also seen athletes supplementing hGH recovering in under 90 days (!!!); MK-677, providing it has been dosed for a while, is predicted to have a similar effect.

    Good post. Thanks for putting it out there for us
    Seriously?! Damn!!! I keep being told "12 months but never completely recovered" by doctors & random lazy fucks that didn't rehab.. Of course, I never listened to that. I was aiming for 6 months for a proper 100% recovery, this seriously makes me excited.

    I started MK677 2 days ago, so I'll be running it before surgery & throughout the entire recovery process.

    I'm having a hamstring tendon graft for the surgery.

    I truly appreciate this post and your help here. Thank you!

  3. #13
    Senior Member Blue_Shine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vewq View Post
    Seriously?! Damn!!! I keep being told "12 months but never completely recovered" by doctors & random lazy fucks that didn't rehab.. Of course, I never listened to that. I was aiming for 6 months for a proper 100% recovery, this seriously makes me excited.

    I started MK677 2 days ago, so I'll be running it before surgery & throughout the entire recovery process.

    I'm having a hamstring tendon graft for the surgery.

    I truly appreciate this post and your help here. Thank you!
    12 months is the top end, mainly for individuals with pre-existing debilitations, or the general population older than 45 years of age. Unless you fall under those categories, It's unlikely it'll take you that long if you do your physiotherapy.

    Bear in mind your attending physician usually will spit out a number that isn't necessarily tailored to your parameters, and that's understandable.

    A hamstring graft - ask your surgeon if he'll use the semi-spinateous muscle. That would be my guess based on US standard of care. In that case you can expect a fairly speedy recovery.

    Starting MK-677 two days ago doesn't really help me consult you on its likely effect if you're not telling me when your operation is scheduled But bear in mind that MK-677 has been shown clinically to start effecting the musculoskeletal recovery after roughly 20-24 weeks. (Reference:MK-0677 (ibutamoren mesylate) for the treatment of patients recovering from hip fracture: a multicenter, randomized, placebo-controlled phase IIb study/ Adunsky A, Chandler J, Heyden N, Lutkiewicz J, Scott BB, Berd Y, Liu N, Papanicolaou DA; Archives of Gerontology and Geriatrics (2011); )

    For a speedy recovery:
    - Eat clean before and after the operation, excess sugars delay wound healing and increase the time needed to resolve deep tissue inflammation.
    - Do not underrate your physio regimen.
    - Do not go hard on hamstring exercises, I recommend not doing anything save for walking for the initial 1-2 months post-op or so, followed by low intensity with higher volume workouts for hamstrings.
    - Cardio is your friend.

    Enjoy your reconstruction

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_Shine View Post
    12 months is the top end, mainly for individuals with pre-existing debilitations, or the general population older than 45 years of age. Unless you fall under those categories, It's unlikely it'll take you that long if you do your physiotherapy.

    Bear in mind your attending physician usually will spit out a number that isn't necessarily tailored to your parameters, and that's understandable.

    A hamstring graft - ask your surgeon if he'll use the semi-spinateous muscle. That would be my guess based on US standard of care. In that case you can expect a fairly speedy recovery.

    Starting MK-677 two days ago doesn't really help me consult you on its likely effect if you're not telling me when your operation is scheduled But bear in mind that MK-677 has been shown clinically to start effecting the musculoskeletal recovery after roughly 20-24 weeks. (Reference:MK-0677 (ibutamoren mesylate) for the treatment of patients recovering from hip fracture: a multicenter, randomized, placebo-controlled phase IIb study/ Adunsky A, Chandler J, Heyden N, Lutkiewicz J, Scott BB, Berd Y, Liu N, Papanicolaou DA; Archives of Gerontology and Geriatrics (2011); )

    For a speedy recovery:
    - Eat clean before and after the operation, excess sugars delay wound healing and increase the time needed to resolve deep tissue inflammation.
    - Do not underrate your physio regimen.
    - Do not go hard on hamstring exercises, I recommend not doing anything save for walking for the initial 1-2 months post-op or so, followed by low intensity with higher volume workouts for hamstrings.
    - Cardio is your friend.

    Enjoy your reconstruction
    I fall under the 22 year old, extremely active, no diseases & very healthy diet category...

    Yeah I realize they're just puking out numbers.. I understand why..

    I'll ask my surgeon about the exact method, but I'd think that's the one. I live in Sweden though.

    I don't have a scheduled date for the surgery yet. I was told 2-3 months about two weeks ago. It seems like a good thing I started dosing MK677 now then, since it's 20-24 week until those results start showing?

    I feel I got those recovery tips covered, but I'm always aiming to improve! Again, I truly appreciate & value your tips & help.

    (Sorry for hijacking the thread, but hopefully it's helping someone else too..)

  5. #15
    Senior Member Blue_Shine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vewq View Post
    I fall under the 22 year old, extremely active, no diseases & very healthy diet category...

    Yeah I realize they're just puking out numbers.. I understand why..

    I'll ask my surgeon about the exact method, but I'd think that's the one. I live in Sweden though.

    I don't have a scheduled date for the surgery yet. I was told 2-3 months about two weeks ago. It seems like a good thing I started dosing MK677 now then, since it's 20-24 week until those results start showing?

    I feel I got those recovery tips covered, but I'm always aiming to improve! Again, I truly appreciate & value your tips & help.

    (Sorry for hijacking the thread, but hopefully it's helping someone else too..)
    It seems like a good thing I started dosing MK677 now then, since it's 20-24 week until those results start showing?
    Since this is your first reconstructive operation on your ACL (I assume) you won't know the difference between showing results vs. not showing results, but yes - MK-677 will be kicked into gear and help you out. Count on it.

    I live in Sweden though.
    Then that's what you're getting for sure. In the US they sometimes push synthetic implants, but that's just a more expensive way to expose yourself to a host of complications, studies say.

    Sorry for hijacking the thread, but hopefully it's helping someone else too..
    It's helping YOU. I'm sure everyone's on board with that

  6. #16
    @blue_shine

    I have been on MK-677 for 18 weeks, was on RAD 140 for 10 of those weeks as well...still on MK677, and taking a mini PCT of GW and Clomid, but staying on the MK. Have experience incredible results from this combination cycle.

    Approx. late Sept of this year, I tore my UCL, near complete tear, rated at a 2+ on a scale of 1-3 whereas a 3 is complete rupture. Options are complete UCL reconstruction (Tommy John surgery) or try PRP with Stem cell injections to see if can push out surgery (knowing complete surgery is 99% going to happen eventually). Two questions: first - will, or should the MK help with the PRP & Stem cell to aid in any potential healing, and second - when full UCL surgery is performed, will MK help in the recovery / healing from the surgery. As you likely know, Tommy John rehab protocol is 12 months, with some slightly sooner, and some even longer. Would love to hear your thoughts on this.

    This injury is primarily (if not only) experienced from baseball players (mainly high velocity pitchers), --- I would anticipate at least 6+ years of competitive pitching left, so I am going to have these treatments / procedures.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Blue_Shine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by srv112266 View Post
    @blue_shine

    I have been on MK-677 for 18 weeks, was on RAD 140 for 10 of those weeks as well...still on MK677, and taking a mini PCT of GW and Clomid, but staying on the MK. Have experience incredible results from this combination cycle.

    Approx. late Sept of this year, I tore my UCL, near complete tear, rated at a 2+ on a scale of 1-3 whereas a 3 is complete rupture. Options are complete UCL reconstruction (Tommy John surgery) or try PRP with Stem cell injections to see if can push out surgery (knowing complete surgery is 99% going to happen eventually). Two questions: first - will, or should the MK help with the PRP & Stem cell to aid in any potential healing, and second - when full UCL surgery is performed, will MK help in the recovery / healing from the surgery. As you likely know, Tommy John rehab protocol is 12 months, with some slightly sooner, and some even longer. Would love to hear your thoughts on this.

    This injury is primarily (if not only) experienced from baseball players (mainly high velocity pitchers), --- I would anticipate at least 6+ years of competitive pitching left, so I am going to have these treatments / procedures.
    *taking big breath*

    If I understand correctly, we're discussing a slow progression type of chiefly the anterior bundle of the UCL over time, as seen in baseball.

    With respect to therapy, the PRP augmented with stem cells has been shown to produce good results in partial tears of lower grades (1); Prevailing medical studies show that for near complete tears it may be unavoidable (as you mentioned) to undertake the Tommy-John surgery.
    Since the graft is mostly from the Palmaris Longus which you don't really use, providing you have it, you're unlikely to sacrifice mobility for it. It has also been demonstrated in a study following 743 athletes for 2 years minimum that underwent the Tommy-John procedure - athletes went back to throwing baseballs after 4.4 months on average (the range was 2.8-12 months), as well as showing 83% of professional baseball athletes returning to previous performance level or higher!!!.(2)

    In light of your condition, I'm not sure why you were recommended to undertake PRP if surgery is inevitable; My guess would be that it's because this past June 2016, a study came out saying that this operation was overly done(3), which caused many health care professionals to withdraw from it, or attempt a conservative measure prior, so they wouldn't be accused of conflict of interest.

    Answers:
    Firstly - will, or should the MK help with the PRP & Stem cell to aid in any potential healing?
    PRP is transfusion of pre-formed platelets, MK-677 would is unlikely to have an effect on pre formed cells; Stem cells have been shown to react to MK-677, but in an in vivo(meaning your own stem cells in your own body) over long term periods, and not transfused one; There's simply no research on that. My take based on the cellular and biological mechanisms in effect is that the effect would be minimal, if at all.

    Second - when full UCL surgery is performed, will MK help in the recovery / healing from the surgery?
    Yes. Yes, it is superlatively likely to act in a positive way on tissue regeneration and wound healing, especially if it's an autograph (your own tendon being transplanted), but even in a allograph (a cadaveric tendon). The longer you have been running it pre-op the more impactful its effect would be.

    P.S. I did not expect such a challenging question from this forum lol... Well done!

    References
    (1)Treatment of partial ulnar collateral ligament tears in the elbow with platelet-rich plasma.
    Podesta L1, Crow SA, Volkmer D, Bert T, Yocum LA; The American Journal of Sports Medicine (2013);
    (2) Outcome of ulnar collateral ligament reconstruction of the elbow in 1281 athletes: Results in 743 athletes with minimum 2-year follow-up./ Cain EL Jr1, Andrews JR, Dugas JR, Wilk KE, McMichael CS, Walter JC 2nd, Riley RS, Arthur ST; American Journal of Sports Medicine (2010)
    (3)Mahure SA, Mollon B, Shamah SD, Kwon YW, Rokito AS. Disproportionate trends in ulnar collateral ligament reconstruction: projections through 2025 and a literature review. J Shoulder Elbow Surg. 2016 Jun;25(6):1005-12. doi: 10.1016/j.jse.2016.02.036;

  8. #18
    I can't get enough of the incredible information shared in this thread. This has become an extremely valuable resource

    (PM me for a price list for Biotech Labs and 10% discount)

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_Shine View Post
    It seems like a good thing I started dosing MK677 now then, since it's 20-24 week until those results start showing?
    Since this is your first reconstructive operation on your ACL (I assume) you won't know the difference between showing results vs. not showing results, but yes - MK-677 will be kicked into gear and help you out. Count on it.

    I live in Sweden though.
    Then that's what you're getting for sure. In the US they sometimes push synthetic implants, but that's just a more expensive way to expose yourself to a host of complications, studies say.

    Sorry for hijacking the thread, but hopefully it's helping someone else too..
    It's helping YOU. I'm sure everyone's on board with that
    Great points! Cheers!

    Quote Originally Posted by RickRock View Post
    I can't get enough of the incredible information shared in this thread. This has become an extremely valuable resource
    Totally agree! Extremely interesting stuff, even for a SARM newbie!

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_Shine View Post
    *taking big breath*

    If I understand correctly, we're discussing a slow progression type of chiefly the anterior bundle of the UCL over time, as seen in baseball.

    With respect to therapy, the PRP augmented with stem cells has been shown to produce good results in partial tears of lower grades (1); Prevailing medical studies show that for near complete tears it may be unavoidable (as you mentioned) to undertake the Tommy-John surgery.
    Since the graft is mostly from the Palmaris Longus which you don't really use, providing you have it, you're unlikely to sacrifice mobility for it. It has also been demonstrated in a study following 743 athletes for 2 years minimum that underwent the Tommy-John procedure - athletes went back to throwing baseballs after 4.4 months on average (the range was 2.8-12 months), as well as showing 83% of professional baseball athletes returning to previous performance level or higher!!!.(2)

    In light of your condition, I'm not sure why you were recommended to undertake PRP if surgery is inevitable; My guess would be that it's because this past June 2016, a study came out saying that this operation was overly done(3), which caused many health care professionals to withdraw from it, or attempt a conservative measure prior, so they wouldn't be accused of conflict of interest.

    Answers:
    Firstly - will, or should the MK help with the PRP & Stem cell to aid in any potential healing?
    PRP is transfusion of pre-formed platelets, MK-677 would is unlikely to have an effect on pre formed cells; Stem cells have been shown to react to MK-677, but in an in vivo(meaning your own stem cells in your own body) over long term periods, and not transfused one; There's simply no research on that. My take based on the cellular and biological mechanisms in effect is that the effect would be minimal, if at all.

    Second - when full UCL surgery is performed, will MK help in the recovery / healing from the surgery?
    Yes. Yes, it is superlatively likely to act in a positive way on tissue regeneration and wound healing, especially if it's an autograph (your own tendon being transplanted), but even in a allograph (a cadaveric tendon). The longer you have been running it pre-op the more impactful its effect would be.

    P.S. I did not expect such a challenging question from this forum lol... Well done!

    References
    (1)Treatment of partial ulnar collateral ligament tears in the elbow with platelet-rich plasma.
    Podesta L1, Crow SA, Volkmer D, Bert T, Yocum LA; The American Journal of Sports Medicine (2013);
    (2) Outcome of ulnar collateral ligament reconstruction of the elbow in 1281 athletes: Results in 743 athletes with minimum 2-year follow-up./ Cain EL Jr1, Andrews JR, Dugas JR, Wilk KE, McMichael CS, Walter JC 2nd, Riley RS, Arthur ST; American Journal of Sports Medicine (2010)
    (3)Mahure SA, Mollon B, Shamah SD, Kwon YW, Rokito AS. Disproportionate trends in ulnar collateral ligament reconstruction: projections through 2025 and a literature review. J Shoulder Elbow Surg. 2016 Jun;25(6):1005-12. doi: 10.1016/j.jse.2016.02.036;
    First, and foremost - as stated by RickRock and others, thank you very much for your contribution to this board. You clearly are at a minimum well educated in the medical / biological field(s).

    Most (myself included) are only able to obtain this kind of information by paying for it via consultations, and Dr. visits....and even then, the information obtained is only as good as the person providing it.

    Bummer - I was really hoping, that although the tear is bordering a complete tear, that with your information from you original post of fractured hips healing from MK-677, that possibly the UCL would respond more favorable. For the record, the recommendation was UCL reconstructive surgery....I am the one who opted to try the PRP / Stem cell. In fact with this type of injury, not all ortho's are created equal. I see in you references Dr. Yocum from LA....he along with Dr. Jobe, and Dr. Andrews are pioneers in the field of UCL repairs, especially as it relates to baseball pitchers.

    As I mentioned, I was on MK 677 & Rad 140, experienced incredible gains in muscle, and strength....and I almost wonder if the very quick increase in strength may have contributed to the tear, as the ligaments / tendons may not be able to adapt quick enough to great increases in stress (in this case - valgus torque on the elbow).

    I will continue with the stem cell, and PRP (I have one more treatment, then begin rehab, and back to throwing program), and will keep with the MK-677. If I cannot return to close to similar performance pre-injury., then will shut down, and have the surgery performed by Dr. Kieth Meister (Rangers team doctor, and had an internship with Dr. Andrews at his Birmingham facility). I will find out if autograph of my Palmaris Longus (I don't know what that is to know if I have one!) or from cadaver....I am assuming one is better than the other?

    Thanks for paying it forward, and giving this board such a great resource. Hopefully we haven't been too bothersome, or taken up too much of your time.

    Much appreciated.

    For anyone interested I have attached a pic of the MRI - if you look at the wishbone looking thing, at approx 9 o'clock you can see the bright white strand, that is barely attached on the bone.

    Torn UCL.jpg

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