Intense Back Pumps

[SwolyGinger]

Hey guys,

So I am using a tbol kicker on my cycle of test e (400mg p/week) and Cardarine/ostarine. Since the tbol has kicked in I am getting crazy tight back pumps (lower). I know this was a possible side but was wondering what everyone else's experience has been. Calves and shoulders get too pumped too usually. It's restricting my deadlifting a bit because I get so tight. I stretch and roll religiously and had no issues prior.

I am taking 6-8 grams of taurine pre-workout and do my best to warmup with things that won't effect my mid-low back before deads and then hit them right away before the pump gets too real. Also not taking any pre to increase pump, just coffee and taurine usually. Anything else you guys would suggest to minimize or is it just part of the game? Been on 2 weeks at 45mg per day split between am and pm.

Thanks fellas.
SG

 

[DylanGemelli]

thats really part of it... drink plenty of water, get adequate carbs and MAKE SURE you are getting enough potassium... you should be getting 4700 mg per day and most people fall well short of that...

 

[SwolyGinger]

So I know you’re a fan of mushrooms, spinach and obviously there are bananas. Anything else high in potassium I could add? You’re right I’m no where near that in potassium. What’s a box of mushroom get you in potassium you think? I’ll start adding them in more for breakfast. I get quite a bit of spinach in a day but that wouldn’t even get me to half what you’re saying there. That will make th biggest difference you think? Thanks brotha.

 

[DylanGemelli]

just google high potassium foods bro,, there's lists everywhere and videos... lists upon lists so you can pick what YOU like... i use dried apricots too ... coconut water etc... just look them up... i dont have the time to sit here and list everything when it takes just a few seconds to check them out

 

[SwolyGinger]

True. Thanks for the advice brotha

 

[Mark Diesel]

You train like a powerlifter correct? If so, I would not use a kickstart ever again. You’ll find that your myostatin builds too quickly, and you stop getting stronger after the kickstart. I am not the only powerlifter that has noticed this either. It is best to use orals as a finisher instead. Your best bet is either very short cycles where you just blast short esters with an oral finisher (start of 2rd-4th week dependent on way your cycle looks like), or like I’m doing. Where I have 3 different ester of steroids and they kick in one after another. Test e week 4, deca week 6, equipoise week 8, then I start halo week 10. Constantly throwing curveballs and letting shit build up in your system. Except most pro powerlifters do this test deca for 12 weeks then test tren ace Anadrol weeks 12-20 with the Anadrol starting week 14. I won’t ever touch that cycle, and I would never recommend it, but people do it. I’m just laying it down for an example, not a suggestion. I’ve done the short ester route and it works great. Trying the long build to see what I like better, but I have a feeling the long way is the way to go just by feel already. Just sucks bc I am going to HATE being on trt for 17 weeks straight.

 

[SwolyGinger]

You train like a powerlifter correct? If so, I would not use a kickstart ever again. You’ll find that your myostatin builds too quickly, and you stop getting stronger after the kickstart. I am not the only powerlifter that has noticed this either. It is best to use orals as a finisher instead. Your best bet is either very short cycles where you just blast short esters with an oral finisher (start of 2rd-4th week dependent on way your cycle looks like), or like I’m doing. Where I have 3 different ester of steroids and they kick in one after another. Test e week 4, deca week 6, equipoise week 8, then I start halo week 10. Constantly throwing curveballs and letting shit build up in your system. Except most pro powerlifters do this test deca for 12 weeks then test tren ace Anadrol weeks 12-20 with the Anadrol starting week 14. I won’t ever touch that cycle, and I would never recommend it, but people do it. I’m just laying it down for an example, not a suggestion. I’ve done the short ester route and it works great. Trying the long build to see what I like better, but I have a feeling the long way is the way to go just by feel already. Just sucks bc I am going to HATE being on trt for 17 weeks straight.

Great info man, thank you. I was debating it as a finisher but first time using tbol so threw it in as a kicker. Next time ill finish with it if I go with tbol again. Would your cycle that you're running now (I know it's in your log) work just fine at lower doses as well? I am still new to steroids for the most part and I know I won't be trying halo most likely but the test, deca, eq was what I was thinking I would build up to eventually. But that's a ways away so haven't put too much thought into it yet. Was thinking of going with a test/eq cycle first to make sure that runs smooth (adding one new compound per cycle) and try adding the deca on the cycle afterward. What do you think? test/deca or test/eq would be a better next cycle? I know everyone will respond differently to the compounds but generally speaking. Thanks! Definitely interested to see how yours goes.

 

[Mark Diesel]

Yes, the dose of test I’m running is sort of high, but the dose of deca and eq is pretty normal. I only use pharmacom.ws products, so I will lay out what I think your next cycle should be. 200mg test e, 90-120mg nandrolone Decanoate, and 250mg equipoise e3d, .25mg cabergoline e3d, 12.5mg aromasin e2d for 17 weeks. If you want you can throw an oral in starting between week 10-12. If you PCT then just follow Dylan’s PCT protocol because it is super solid. I would reccomend 500iu e2d for the week after your last injection before PCT but that’s optional.

 

[RickRock]

You train like a powerlifter correct? If so, I would not use a kickstart ever again. You’ll find that your myostatin builds too quickly, and you stop getting stronger after the kickstart. I am not the only powerlifter that has noticed this either. It is best to use orals as a finisher instead. Your best bet is either very short cycles where you just blast short esters with an oral finisher (start of 2rd-4th week dependent on way your cycle looks like), or like I’m doing. Where I have 3 different ester of steroids and they kick in one after another. Test e week 4, deca week 6, equipoise week 8, then I start halo week 10. Constantly throwing curveballs and letting shit build up in your system. Except most pro powerlifters do this test deca for 12 weeks then test tren ace Anadrol weeks 12-20 with the Anadrol starting week 14. I won’t ever touch that cycle, and I would never recommend it, but people do it. I’m just laying it down for an example, not a suggestion. I’ve done the short ester route and it works great. Trying the long build to see what I like better, but I have a feeling the long way is the way to go just by feel already. Just sucks bc I am going to HATE being on trt for 17 weeks straight.

Well said bro. I've been preaching this exact same thing for a long time trying to break the typical broscience oral kickstart mentality that's parroted everywhere. It actually causes more harm than good because of what it does to raising myostatin and stalling your gains out quicker. Everything in your cycle should always build up....not taper down. I haven't ran an oral kickstart in a very long time. I don't use orals much at all anymore but when I do it's as a finisher only

 

[SwolyGinger]

Well said bro. I've been preaching this exact same thing for a long time trying to break the typical broscience oral kickstart mentality that's parroted everywhere. It actually causes more harm than good because of what it does to raising myostatin and stalling your gains out quicker. Everything in your cycle should always build up....not taper down. I haven't ran an oral kickstart in a very long time. I don't use orals much at all anymore but when I do it's as a finisher only

What do you guys think. Stop the tbol (11 days in) and use it at the end of the cycle? Or should I simply keep running it because I've already started. A shame to hear this because I was looking online and I did see a bit of info that powerlifters were using it at the end of the cycle but 90% of posts all used it as a kicker. I was torn between kicker or finisher. Any advice that way? I've been taking the organ support alongside it.

 

[DylanGemelli]

What do you guys think. Stop the tbol (11 days in) and use it at the end of the cycle? Or should I simply keep running it because I've already started. A shame to hear this because I was looking online and I did see a bit of info that powerlifters were using it at the end of the cycle but 90% of posts all used it as a kicker. I was torn between kicker or finisher. Any advice that way? I've been taking the organ support alongside it.

thats really up to you.. i dont have an issue with it.. .a lot of people do it... more so do than don't in your situation... the facts make sense, but 11 days in, its really time to make a decision... its all your call, noone can make that for you, all people are going to do is fill your head with different opinions, only confusing you more... YOU decide

 

[SwolyGinger]

Yes, the dose of test I’m running is sort of high, but the dose of deca and eq is pretty normal. I only use pharmacom.ws products, so I will lay out what I think your next cycle should be. 200mg test e, 90-120mg nandrolone Decanoate, and 250mg equipoise e3d, .25mg cabergoline e3d, 12.5mg aromasin e2d for 17 weeks. If you want you can throw an oral in starting between week 10-12. If you PCT then just follow Dylan’s PCT protocol because it is super solid. I would reccomend 500iu e2d for the week after your last injection before PCT but that’s optional.

This looks like a great cycle for next time. I will definitely try it out. Is it possible to do the full dose deca/test together day 1 and then the eq day 4 on its own and continue like that all cycle or should they be taken exactly as laid out every 3 days? I just figure that would be easier to gauge when pinning especially with the deca. Thanks Diesel!

 

[SwolyGinger]

thats really up to you.. i dont have an issue with it.. .a lot of people do it... more so do than don't in your situation... the facts make sense, but 11 days in, its really time to make a decision... its all your call, noone can make that for you, all people are going to do is fill your head with different opinions, only confusing you more... YOU decide

Absolutely. I was just looking to see if it would be detrimental to stop and start again. Especially regarding the myostatin buildup (whether or not it would be too late 11 days in) I will stop the tbol for now and use it as a finisher. I don't like the idea of stalling out my gains and have no problem waiting until the end of cycle. Thank you so much everyone. You guys are such a great help. I have a lot to learn but you guys are helping me a ton.

 

[DylanGemelli]

no problem

 

[Mark Diesel]

No don’t stop the tbol! Continue it, Get as much strength as you can from it, then maintain it with the test. Now you just know for next time. This is just my take and I respect Dylan’s opinion always, I probably learned 50% of my current knowledge of steroids from him and his channel.

 

[Mark Diesel]

This looks like a great cycle for next time. I will definitely try it out. Is it possible to do the full dose deca/test together day 1 and then the eq day 4 on its own and continue like that all cycle or should they be taken exactly as laid out every 3 days? I just figure that would be easier to gauge when pinning especially with the deca. Thanks Diesel!

I would get the pharmacom 4 mix, and do .5cc pharmamix 4 with .5cc eq500 every 3 days, or test e 500, deca 300, and eq500 and inject all of them at the same time, every 3 days. The deca 300 and especially eq500 will take 90% of the post injection pain away from the test 500 so don’t worry about that. Just NEVER hit that test on on its own bc you will have a dead muscle for a WEEK!

 

[SwolyGinger]

I would get the pharmacom 4 mix, and do .5cc pharmamix 4 with .5cc eq500 every 3 days, or test e 500, deca 300, and eq500 and inject all of them at the same time, every 3 days. The deca 300 and especially eq500 will take 90% of the post injection pain away from the test 500 so don’t worry about that. Just NEVER hit that test on on its own bc you will have a dead muscle for a WEEK!

beauty. I like pharama they have been good to me so far. Also have used PL, both solid sources. I will try that combo out! Also thanks again for all the advice. Hit some awesome PR's today and not even close to my peak on cycle yet. Looking forward to see what the next couple months bring. Would like to get to 385 bench, 545 dead and 495 squat! thanks brotha

 

[Mark Diesel]

beauty. I like pharama they have been good to me so far. Also have used PL, both solid sources. I will try that combo out! Also thanks again for all the advice. Hit some awesome PR's today and not even close to my peak on cycle yet. Looking forward to see what the next couple months bring. Would like to get to 385 bench, 545 dead and 495 squat! thanks brotha

Yessir! And damn that’s a hefty squat compared to your dead!

 

[SwolyGinger]

Yessir! And damn that’s a hefty squat compared to your dead!

Yeah I'm actually quite quad dominant when my knee isn't banged up, only factor holding my squat back is my knee. If i wrap them I can go heavy even after not squatting for months. But I will absolutely pay for it afterward. Deadlift I started really late because my back would always get tight doing deads when I was younger (likely from bad form and over training). Now that I've cleaned it all up its been moving up steadily but would like to see it improve at least 45 pounds on this cycle. I have no idea what to expect since this is my first legitimate cycle but my joints have been feeling better which I was really hoping for, so I don't have to slow my progress. Been doing mainly hypertrophy with no sets below 8 reps to start it off and beforehand trying to give everything a break along with a de-load. That will be changing next week as I move into strength training. Time will tell. How many weeks into your cycle are you now?

 

[Mark Diesel]

Go to a joint doctor and see what’s up. I had some knee issues and thought it was something a little serious, turned out to be cartilidge inflamtion and 1600mg ibuprofen a day for a week did the trick. And I’m on day 28!