How much natural Test production is necessary to produce gains?

[Gunk]

Stats:
38 yrs
200 lbs 5'11"
Max 1rm:
Deadlift 405#
Bench 250#
Squat 315#

I finished my first cycle of Test E over two months ago although I think my gear was underdosed. I gained about 20# but it was a lot of fat. I was eating too much. My blood work just came back with Free Test at 400. I was at over 800 before cycle.
I did proper PCT.

My question is, can I make any gains at my current natural Test production of 400? Am I just screwed? Did I wreck my HPTA and now have no choice but to inject T from now on if I want gains?




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[ironlifter36]

What was your LH and FSH on your most recent blood work compared to your LH and FSH on your pre-cycle blood work?

Vildail is right...testosterone levels are not the end all be all when it comes to making gains. I have known people with levels around 300 that were making great gains. Don't get me wrong, testosterone is a key driver in muscle growth, but there are many other factors at play. If all other factors (Genetics, training, nutrition ect.) were equal, the guy with the highest test levels would obviously have the advantage, but all other factors are NEVER equal so it is hard to say.

 

[9th Wonder]

Your at the age where your test levels are going to drop regardless. Run a SARMS stack as a bridge, eat, sleep, train and get what you can out of what you got for now.

For me personally my levels would fluctuate so it may go up a bit too. I wouldn't get to bent out of shape though.

 

[Gunk]

Your test levels are extremely individual so there's no way to say for certain.

It's not as black and white as test serum levels, which is different than the free test levels by the way.

Free T was at 50.9 (35-155).

I misspoke in 1st post. You're right, my Total T was 449.


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[Gunk]

What was your LH and FSH on your most recent blood work compared to your LH and FSH on your pre-cycle blood work?

I didn't get those tested. What is the importance or what would those tests indicate?

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[Gunk]

Your at the age where your test levels are going to drop regardless. Run a SARMS stack as a bridge...

Please help me understand this a bit better, isn't a SARMS stack suppressive to my HPTA? The bridge is used between AAS cycles right? So I would be using suppressive compounds with the SARMS and then going to more suppressive compounds with another AAS cycle? Isn't this the path that leads to mandatory TRT for life?


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[9th Wonder]

No... Starting AAS is leading you down that path. Cycling just disrupts your endocrine system and causes you to yo-yo putting you at risk regardless of using SARMS are not.

The amount of suppression from SARMS is minimal at best... they really give you the best of both worlds- superior results with barely any side effects (S4 is the most noticeable)

 

[Gunk]

The amount of suppression from SARMS is minimal at best... they really give you the best of both worlds- superior results with barely any side effects (S4 is the most noticeable)

S4 has the most noticeable side effects or positive results?

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[9th Wonder]

S4 has the most noticeable side effects or positive results?

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A little bit of both. I would compare it to something like winstrol in terms muscle hardening, strength gains and the cutting effect.

The sides effects are visibility sensitivity. Basically when your eyes transition from light to dark it takes a moment to adjust. It goes away very quickly though and nothing to fret over in my opinion. It's one of favorites of all time.


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[Gunk]

Thanks for the feedback bro. I've been looking at a S4 and LGD stack. Looks like a better way to go if I don't want to take the chance of being dependant on needles for life.

Just sucks that a 12 week cycle is around $700. More expensive than the juice.

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[Gunk]

So, does S4 and LGD actually raise T levels a bit? Is that why they are a bit suppressive?

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[ironlifter36]

I didn't get those tested. What is the importance or what would those tests indicate?

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As 9th pointed out, natural test levels can fluctuate. Blood work should be done in the AM when natural levels are highest. LH and FSH are basically the hormones that communicate between the brain and testicles. Low LH and LSH numbers combined with low test levels would suggest you are shutdown. In range LH and FSH levels combined low test levels would suggest you are just suppressed.

Knowing your LH and FSH values before hand would have given you a baseline to compare your values to now. These values are important in determining how well you recovered.

 

[Gunk]

Thank you for that explanation. Very helpful.

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[ironlifter36]

Thank you for that explanation. Very helpful.

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I hope i explained it right, i have read and learned just enough to be dangerous lol. Did you order your own blood test or through your doctor? If you order it through PrivateMDlabs LH and FSH will be on there.

 

[Gunk]

My recent tests were done by doctor as part of my 'annual checkup'. E2, LH, and FSH weren't on there. I guess I'll need to get test on PrivateMdLabs.

I want to start a LGD and S4 stack so I guess it would be good to know all my levels before starting something new. These low T levels got me thinking twice about pinning T again. I don't want to be pinning for life.

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[ironlifter36]

Here is the link, you want the female panel, but when you are filling out the info, check that you are a male. https://www.privatemdlabs.com/lab_t...ults&show=1032&category=14&search=female#1032

S4 is good stuff

 

[Gunk]

Cheers!

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