AAS with higher body fat....

[jp1957]

I've spent some time over the past year discussing this subject with the Head Endo here at the hospital. (He deals with most of the local sports teams)

I know the generally accepted methodology here is not use AAS until you are under 15%.

But, what is missing in this advice, is you CAN run AAS with elevated BF, just not supraphysical levels. Basically TRT levels. No more than 200mg, if even that depending how elevated your BF is.( he says like no greater than 25%). He has also commented on powerlifters, and those guys use a shit ton of gear, and certainly arent 15% or less.

And with careful blood monitoring and AI's, there is still benefit to getting ones test levels into the high normal range (1000-1200).

Thats straight from him, I have no horse in the race, just thought I'd pass it on.

Its value is exactly what it cost you

 

[DylanGemelli]

of course you can run trt at a higher body fat... you have a condition that needs treated... its people blasting gear at high body fat thinking its going to put them in some sort of superman condition... you are at a FAR higher rate of enhanced side effects... do you think its a good thing for a person with elevated body fat, who likely already has cholesterol and blood pressure problems to make it worse? do you realize how dangerous that is at a high body fat? how about the elevated estrogen conversion? that is a guarantee to happen when using steroids at a high body fat... on top of that, you dont get anywhere near what you should out of it when you are not in the proper condition.. fuck, its not that you can't.. you can do whatever you want, whenever you want... its whether you should and i'll never recommend it to people overweight unless trt is needed... period...

 

[Dorin76]

I've spent some time over the past year discussing this subject with the Head Endo here at the hospital. (He deals with most of the local sports teams)

I know the generally accepted methodology here is not use AAS until you are under 15%.

But, what is missing in this advice, is you CAN run AAS with elevated BF, just not supraphysical levels. Basically TRT levels. No more than 200mg, if even that depending how elevated your BF is.( he says like no greater than 25%). He has also commented on powerlifters, and those guys use a shit ton of gear, and certainly arent 15% or less.

And with careful blood monitoring and AI's, there is still benefit to getting ones test levels into the high normal range (1000-1200).

Thats straight from him, I have no horse in the race, just thought I'd pass it on.

Its value is exactly what it cost you

Well I know I get chewed a lot for starting AAS before being below 15% bf, but I did get all this started under advice of my doctor first. Am on TRT CYP 250mg/week. Typically my AAS doses are now in this range except for EQ. That is at 750mg/werk. This does explain a lot! What works for one may or may not work for another!


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[jp1957]

Good point Dylan, I'd left out the "you need to be healthy part" as that was always assumed in my discussions with him on this.

 

[RickRock]

I don't think anybody has a problem with guys over 15% being on trt doses. The issue is running higher dosed cycles that impact health values and blood pressure greatly on those not in shape more than anyone. It's just not safe of healthy compared to someone in shape with good health markers and BP

 

[RedMorkai]

Usually people that haven't attained below 15% bf is indicative of their lack of knowledge/commitment to this lifestyle.

 

[jp1957]

Not necessarily, like me for example, I wont go under 20%, or I'll go hypothermic underwater for multi hours (3-4) deep water dives in 38-40d water. When i get down to 18, its brutal.

 

[Dorin76]

I don't think anybody has a problem with guys over 15% being on trt doses. The issue is running higher dosed cycles that impact health values and blood pressure greatly on those not in shape more than anyone. It's just not safe of healthy compared to someone in shape with good health markers and BP

True, and am sure is why my doctor said am ready. At first? I was dead against this. But finally gave in afzer he said to me, "Do you mot think I have your best interest in mind?"

I know am not 10% bf by athletic standard and medical standard is more embarrassing because I had those numbers going in wrong direction! Mă sunt jenat !! Am probably 14 to 18% somewhere, but am going to ask for dexa scan. Am bulking a bit now, but will hit recomp again after a break.

I have lost a lot of fat!

Would love to go on hard bulk, but if I can only do one thing, hard bulk or intern in Med Surg? Guess where am going! I still work out, but will be in maintenance mode. My schedule will be 3 days on and 4 off with 12 hour days!
I do not see how am going to be able to hard bulk, unless my routine and workout is wrong. There is still rest period needed...............

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[medeiros13]

Usually people that haven't attained below 15% bf is indicative of their lack of knowledge/commitment to this lifestyle.

I don't agree with this completely. I know the culture is changing in power lifting where more competitors are getting more lean as opposed to the traditional pudgier look. But do you honestly believe that those who power lift aren't committed to their craft. They aren't committed to losing BF because they only care about getting stronger IMO.

 

[RickRock]

I don't agree with this completely. I know the culture is changing in power lifting where more competitors are getting more lean as opposed to the traditional pudgier look. But do you honestly believe that those who power lift aren't committed to their craft. They aren't committed to losing BF because they only care about getting stronger IMO.

I think he's referring to the vast majority of those not in shape, and not professional powerlifters which is absolutely true. Successful powerlifters are going to make up an extremely small percentage of those users over 15% bodyfat

 

[ironlifter36]

I don't agree with this completely. I know the culture is changing in power lifting where more competitors are getting more lean as opposed to the traditional pudgier look. But do you honestly believe that those who power lift aren't committed to their craft. They aren't committed to losing BF because they only care about getting stronger IMO.

You bring up a very good point. A buddy of mine competes in power lifting. He is as round as they come, 5'7", 260 and probably around 30%BF if I was to be generous. His primary goal is strength, getting his 1RM as high as possible for these meets. Being fat actually helps in this aspect. His belly actually assists him in coming out of the squat hole. He has cut down before to 230lb and all of his lifts suffered..substantially. His nutrition, in my opinion, is complete shit. If I sit close enough to him while he is eating, I can feel myself getting fatter just by osmosis. While I certainly do not agree with his nutrition nor share the same goal of getting as strong AF at all cost, I still respect his commitment to training and the records he has achieved. Dylan posted a video a while back that really helped remind me of the big picture. While we all may not share the goals, we are all joined by the love of fitness and the desire to achieve a certain goal..whatever that may be. While I do not agree with my friends nutrition or share the same fitness goals as him, he still has a wealth of knowledge to share, some of which CAN be useful to helping me achieve my own goals. I am of the belief that everyone on this planet, no matter who they are, is better at something than I am. Everyone has that "one thing" that they are good at. I make it my goal to discover what it is that person does better than me and learn from them.

Now, as far as gear at higher body fat %, I can say all the gear my buddy takes has done nothing to help him loose body fat. Even Tren. In fact, I think he is fatter.

 

[RedMorkai]

I think he's referring to the vast majority of those not in shape, and not professional powerlifters which is absolutely true. Successful powerlifters are going to make up an extremely small percentage of those users over 15% bodyfat

Yes. Thank you. I should've put usually in bold.

 

[medeiros13]

I'm glad you agree with me on that. I completely get how you wouldn't agree with how he does things....especially his nutrition . I guess my bigger point is that sometimes we engage in a group think mentality where everything is black and white. I actually agree with the OP; I don't think you have to be 15% to do AAS. I'm certainly not and I've done two cycles. Now the points Dylan mentioned are legit....I likely had high estrogen issues because of my bf. But I feel like I work as hard as anyone here in the gym. My issue is diet....I know that and accept that is my weakness.....and the benefits of my cycles outweigh the negatives imo

 

[Dorin76]

Thing we need to remember is no one size fits all! Was I at less than 15% BF when I started? No! Probably somewhere like 18%, but is a far way from 33-35% I was in past! I did not want to start AAS because of all horror story I hear about those who have done and really fuck themselves up real good! It was my Doctors idea. But at lower doses because I am in more physically active shape than most and was at gym dedicated to my workouts. His reason I get started with Boldenone (that was MY first pic of aas) is because of endurance, stamina and RBC increase and better O2 retention. Means I would work out longer, have more energie and the BF I had would slowly be exchange for more muscle because of ohysical activity level increase. BUT he is NO FAN of high doses at all! And am finding out doses of Tren and Deca in the 300mg/week range are pretty effective! And no sides but having a BP cuff and Pulse OX O2 reader really do help! My issue is also diet, not that I eat unhealthy, but because am a Nurse and Med Student, I pick the most healthy food from what is available because hunger during a 12 hour shift in Med Surg is no fun!!

Am I where I want to be BF% wise? Oh hell no, but one thing we all need to remember and is easy forgotten. You did not put this weight on fast! Do not take it off fast with a crash diet! My choices after failing diets and measuring out grams of this and mililiters of that is I can be big and heavyset or big and musculare. Guess what I choose.


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[DylanGemelli]

this argument can go on and on and on... everyone is free to do and believe whatever they want and people are going to find ways to make arguments for what they want... the facts are what i laid out and that its far riskier to use them at a higher body fat... personally, it does not make sense to me to use them if you are not in excellent condition because you just don't get the results you would either but everyone is always free to do whatever they want... i won't change my recommendations because i put safety first and then i try to help people get the MOST out of what they are doing... thats how i teach and that's what i believe in...

 

[Dorin76]

Agree with Dylan in most of what he is saying. I only differ in one area. Finding a good DOCTOR!!! One who will see you personally, have people qualfied to give you physical exam, who you can tell what your plans are and give you honest support! Is not an excuse to do whatever you want! Am not telling you that! These doctors are out there and thank god I have one because I would NOT have done this on my own had he not been there to help with YEARS of professional medical experience! Take your questions to experienced people and your health care professional. And when I say I will not give advice beyond general to someone who is not my patient, am not being rude! Am trying to say in diplomacy fashion I would be completely irresponsible to give any advice when I can not see you in person with RN to give you a physical. Am not qualified for this!!

My own doctor tells me he stands by Dylan in being in excellent physical condition generally and I am rare exception to this because of what I put my body through after getting hit by two cars!

I have been told by some here am not a good influence because am taking a short cut. Guys I would never recommend anyone take any short cut in this, much less my "Short cut" of being hit by a damn fucking Pontiac going 60 MPH, thrown into air 35 feet, being run over and crushed into 218 pieces on asphalt by 3,800 lb of steel and fighting auto immune condition that brought me down to 3.2% Body fat TOTAL after my normal fat, muscle proteins, flesh loss brought me down to 92 lb skeletor with total of FOUR immune T Cells in my whole body that had my doctor convince at one point he would issue me an AWARD for being 3.2% body fat, called a Death Certificate in 3 days at one point if the midline IV drip feeding calories, proteins and nutrition direct in to my chest through a vein into my blood through my heart failed to stop my body from eating itself to death.

I tell very few this, and now you all know. But I will not help you do something really stupid because "my short cut worked" so do not ask. And I promise I will log out of this forum and take a break before I really lose here with any of you again. Or if my first response to someone asking me to show then a short cut to go from 20% fat to 3 or 4% in 6 months would cause me to say something stupid like "getting AIDS or cancer would be your best bet".

This I will not bring up again. I said what I had to. And sometimes when am piss off at people? Please remember is because am a student Nurse/Medic and I give a shit. My patients are often badly injured and very sick, sometimes at end of life and anywhere from kids to elderly adults.

I have to believe professional athletes and body builders have got to be some of the strongest people on this fucking planet commited completely to not settle in for being complacent.

And so is being a Nurse and Medic.

Crede-mă. Fii bine și o zi frumoasă pentru tine de a avea. Vă mulțumim pentru ascultare tuturor!

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[buen]

Not necessarily, like me for example, I wont go under 20%, or I'll go hypothermic underwater for multi hours (3-4) deep water dives in 38-40d water. When i get down to 18, its brutal.

Sorry... I realize that you are speaking to the issue of 15% and above being indicitive of lack of commitmentbut and that is a generalization
But I don't see how your choice to keep YOUR BF above 20% has any relevance
Just because you WANT to carry that BF....it doesn't mean you should be using steroids

Dylan's position which I wholeheartedly concur with is .....
Steroid use in individuals above 15% is neither SAFE or EFFECTIVE
and for guys that use steroids for physique enhancement...the optimum upper range is 12-13%