Advice, Where to go from here. A struggle.

toogoods · Dec 27, 2016

Started 2012: Age: 28

Weight:225lbs
Training: 3-5 days back then
Starting lifts-Deadlift 1RM(115) , Squat 1 RM (55lbs), BENCH(75lbs)
Labs Back then: Testosterone Total- 923 NG/DL--LAB RANGE--(250-1100)
Testosterone Free- 153 pg/ml---LAB RANGE...(35.5-155.0)

CURRENT NOW (12/27/2016)Age: 32

Current weight: 175lbs 17%-20% BF
Current Training- 5 days a week(90 mins min) 3 HIIT, 1 LIIS(1 hour)
Current Lifts- Deadlift 1RM(365lbs) , Squat 1 RM (285lbs), BENCH( 185lbs)

Testosterone Total- 620 NG/DL--LAB RANGE--(250-1100)
Testosterone Free- 101 pg/ml---LAB RANGE...(35.5-155.0)

Not going to sugarcoat or make this a long story but more of a short version

My picture below speaks for itself. Basically I can't figure out why I can't drop the lower part of my abdominal area. I've tried everything from clean eating to half and half, and even hiring coach sadik hadzovic.

I've had my fair share of health issues ranging from severe Vitamin D deficiency, but I've always stayed true and consistent threw my 4-5 years of training natty. At this point I feel like I am spinning wheels indefinitely and making no noticeable changes

I would start a cut and feel great but at some point of my cut usually week 15ish I start to dramatically lose size and strength for some reason. I am a true skinny fat, and while I still remain fairly strong, I can't help but wanting to turn to test as my last ditch effort to try and add more quality lean muscle and rid lower belly fat for good.

I tried dieting to extreme weights, and that got me a sick skinny look while as you can see in the pic below I got nowhere. I can't really begin to state that I've literally tried everything 4-5+ years of experimenting and I still end up with the same result... It is starting to affect my workouts, my motivation and my sense of why I do this to begin with. I know patience is key , but I'm convinced something isn't adding up.

I am now looking towards test, as a last ditch effort to fix my physique and be happy with my progress and hard work, I still want to compete in a show at some point, but this has been so difficult for me. Watching these 18, 19, 20-24s year old kids get jacked without any effort and training natty first, is sure frustrating. I am not doing this to just look good I am doing this so I can compete and achieve something I wanted to do for over 8 years now.

Any advice would be great, ANYTHING. Maybe just maybe I can get somewhere or be pointed in the right direction. Dylan has always been a great advocate for keeping people healthy and making right choices, so I definitely value his opinion a lot.

I did a 22 week cut that consisted of 6 meals, all plain and clean meals , it was basically was a 5 low carb days and 2 high carb days, and My starting calories started from 2424 and at the end of 22 weeks ended at 2196, total weight loss was from 185lbs to 164lb, at my lowest. Did cardio x3 a week for 20 mins each session, added hit towards the end of the diet x2 a week.

My meals looked something like this.

Diet:

Weeks 1 and 3
LC

Meal 1 - 10.5 oz - Egg whites, 2 tbsps - Olive Oil, 3/4 cup - Broccoli

Meal 2 - 4.5 oz - Chicken, 3/8 cup - Pistachios, 3/4 cup - Broccoli

Meal 3 - 4 oz - Tuna, 1.5 oz - Brown Rice, 3/4 cup - Spinach

Workout

Meal 4 - 1 1/2 scoops - Whey protein, 2 oz - Jasmine Rice, 3/4 cup - Asparagus

Meal 5 - 4.5 oz - Chicken, 1.5 oz - Brown Rice, 2 tbsps - Olive Oil, 3/4 cup - Broccoli

Meal 6 - 4 oz - Tuna, 2 tbsps - Olive Oil, 3/4 cup - Broccoli

HC

Meal 1 - 11 oz - Egg whites, 7 oz - Sweet Potato, 1 tbsp - Olive Oil, 3/4 cup - Mushrooms

Meal 2 - 4 oz - Lean Beef, 1.5 oz - Brown Rice, 1 tbsp - Olive Oil, 3/4 cup - Spinach

Meal 3 - 4 oz - Tuna, 1.5 oz - Brown Rice, 3/4 cup - Spinach

Workout

Meal 4 - 1 1/2 scoops - Whey protein, 3 oz - Wheat Pasta

Meal 5 - 4.5 oz - Chicken, 1.5 oz - Wheat Pasta, 1 tbsp - Olive Oil, 3/4 cup - Asparagus

Meal 6 - 4 oz - Lean Beef, 1.5 oz - Brown Rice, 1 tbsp - Olive Oil, 3/4 cup - Green Beans

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Weeks 2 and 4
LC

Meal 1 - 1 1/2 scoops - Whey protein

Meal 2 - 10.5 oz - Egg whites, 2 tbsps - Olive Oil, 3/4 cup - Spinach

Meal 3 - 4.5 oz - Chicken, 1.5 oz - Brown Rice, 2 tbsps - Olive Oil, 3/4 cup - Spinach

Workout

Meal 4 - 1 1/2 scoops - Whey protein, 7.5 oz - Sweet Potato

Meal 5 - 4.5 oz - Chicken, 5.5 oz - Sweet Potato, 2 tbsps - Olive Oil, 3/4 cup - Mushrooms

Meal 6 - 4 oz - Lean Beef, 2 tbsps - Olive Oil, 3/4 cup - Spinach

HC

Meal 1 - 11 oz - Egg whites, 1.5 oz - Cream of Wheat, 1/2 tbsp - Olive Oil, 3/4 cup - Broccoli

Meal 2 - 1 1/2 scoops - Whey protein, 1.5 oz - Wheat Pasta, 1/2 tbsp - Olive Oil, 3/4 cup - Broccoli

Meal 3 - 4.5 oz - Chicken, 1.5 oz - Wheat Pasta, 1/2 tbsp - Olive Oil, 3/4 cup - Spinach

Workout

Meal 4 - 1 1/2 scoops - Whey protein, 2.5 oz - Cream of Wheat

Meal 5 - 4.5 oz - Chicken, 1.5 oz - Wheat Pasta, 13 nuts - Pistachios, 3/4 cup - Asparagus

Meal 6 - 4 oz - Tuna, 1.5 oz - Brown Rice, 1/2 tbsp - Sesame Oil, 3/4 cup - Broccoli

AsapSlim · Dec 27, 2016

At such high body fat you would not be an ideal candidate for steroids, you would probably spend more time battling side effects than you would working out in the gym.

44YOGearHead · Dec 27, 2016

At present you do seem to have too much bf. I just looked at the pics versus reading all of the post (short attention span).

ironlifter36 · Dec 27, 2016

Hey Bro, I know you must be frustrated, but don't give up. It took me many, many years before I figured out how to drop my body fat down to single digits. You seem to have a basic understanding of nutrition. What did your total protein, carbs and fat look like during the cut? Your Test levels look normal, do you know what your estrogen levels are? Perhaps you have adequate testosterone, but it is binding?? 22 weeks is a long cut. I was only able to get down to single digit body fat by doing a slow step down...meaning 4-6 week cuts max. I would cut for 4-6 weeks, then reverse diet over 2 weeks back to maintenance calories, eat at maintenance for 2 weeks then repeat. It took me about a year to go from 25% down to 8-9% BF.

You say you started at 185 and ended at 164. What was your starting body fat % and ending body fat %? Based on this we can determine your starting LBM and ending LBM to see how much of that 21 pounds you lost was fat. The longer you are in a calorie deficit (cut), the greater the chance of muscle loss due to changes in hormones in my experience. Not to mention loss of strength. This is where I found shorter cuts to be beneficial.

Also, while you have made strength improvements over the last 4 years, they don't quite seem on par with where you could be. What does your training look like? Please post up. 5 days a week of lifting for 90 min plus HIIT/LIIS is a lot. You can work out for 3 hours a day and 7 days a week, but if your still lifting the same amount this year as you did last year then there will be no change.

toogoods · Dec 27, 2016

ironlifter36 said:
Hey Bro, I know you must be frustrated, but don't give up. It took me many, many years before I figured out how to drop my body fat down to single digits. You seem to have a basic understanding of nutrition. What did your total protein, carbs and fat look like during the cut? Your Test levels look normal, do you know what your estrogen levels are? Perhaps you have adequate testosterone, but it is binding?? 22 weeks is a long cut. I was only able to get down to single digit body fat by doing a slow step down...meaning 4-6 week cuts max. I would cut for 4-6 weeks, then reverse diet over 2 weeks back to maintenance calories, eat at maintenance for 2 weeks then repeat. It took me about a year to go from 25% down to 8-9% BF.

You say you started at 185 and ended at 164. What was your starting body fat % and ending body fat %? Based on this we can determine your starting LBM and ending LBM to see how much of that 21 pounds you lost was fat. The longer you are in a calorie deficit (cut), the greater the chance of muscle loss due to changes in hormones in my experience. Not to mention loss of strength. This is where I found shorter cuts to be beneficial.

Also, while you have made strength improvements over the last 4 years, they don't quite seem on par with where you could be. What does your training look like? Please post up. 5 days a week of lifting for 90 min plus HIIT/LIIS is a lot. You can work out for 3 hours a day and 7 days a week, but if your still lifting the same amount this year as you did last year then there will be no change.

First I wanna thank you for replying and I appreciate the advice

. I did sadiks program for 22 weeks total and he basically had me doing 5 days a week 3 days LISS and 2 HIITS as well.

Day 2
Movements Sets/Reps Tempo
Shoulder Press 4 sets of 16 0 seconds
Front Squat 4 sets of 16 60 seconds
Chest Press 4 sets of 16 0 seconds
Deadlift 4 sets of 16 60 seconds
Shrugs 4 sets of 16 0 seconds
Hip Bridges 4 sets of 16 60 seconds
Calf Raises 4 sets of 16 0 seconds
Forearm Curls 4 sets of 16 60 seconds

Day 3
Movements Sets/Reps Tempo
Bench Press 4 sets to failure 0 seconds
SA Bent Over DB Row 4 sets to failure 60 seconds
Leg Extensions 4 sets to failure 0 seconds
Leg Curls 4 sets to failure 60 seconds
Upright Row 4 sets to failure 0 seconds
Lat Pull Downs 4 sets to failure 60 seconds
Leg Press 4 sets to failure 0 seconds
Hack Squat 4 sets to failure 60 seconds

Day 4
Movements Sets/Reps Tempo
Mountain Climbers 4 Sets of 20 seconds 10 seconds
Push ups 4 Sets of 20 seconds 10 seconds
Burpees 4 Sets of 10 Seconds 20 seconds
Overhead Reverse Lunges 4 Sets of 10 Seconds 20 seconds
Box Jumps 4 Sets of 20 seconds 10 seconds
Tire Flips 4 Sets of 20 seconds 10 seconds
High Knees 4 Sets of 10 Seconds 20 seconds
Wide Grip Push ups 4 Sets of 10 Seconds 20 seconds

Day 6
Movements Sets/Reps Tempo
Lat Pull Downs 2 sets of 10 30 seconds
Shurgs 2 sets of 12 30 seconds
Cross Cable Reverse Flies (low) 3 sets of 20 30 seconds
Cross Cable Reverse Flies (high) 4 sets of 13 30 seconds
Straight Arm Cable Pull Downs 4 sets of 8 30 seconds
Standing Cable Row (rope) 6 sets of 10 No 0 seconds
Incline Cable Row (rope) rest between each 0 seconds
Decline Cable Row (rope) until all 3 done 45 seconds

Day 7
Movements Sets/Reps Tempo
Skull Crushers 4 sets to failure 0 seconds
BB Curls 4 sets to failure 60 seconds
Lateral Raises 4 sets to failure 0 seconds
Wide Grip Pull Ups 4 sets to failure 60 seconds
Close Grip Bench Press 4 sets to failure 0 seconds
Inverted Rows 4 sets to failure 60 seconds
Hamstring Curls 4 sets to failure 0 seconds
Leg Extensions 4 sets to failure 60 seconds

CORE ADDED WITH THE WORKOUTS BELOW:

Hanging Leg Raises 3 sets to failure 60 seconds
Plank 3 sets 60 seconds 0 seconds
Mountian climbers 3 sets 60 seconds 0 seconds
Yoga ball Vacuum crunch 3 sets 60 seconds 0 seconds

Day 2
Movements Sets/Reps Tempo
Kneeling cable crunches 3 sets 60 seconds 0 seconds
Toes to bar 3 sets 60 seconds 0 seconds
Hanging leg lifts 3 sets 60 seconds 0 seconds
Plank 3 sets 60 seconds 60 seconds

Day 3
Movements Sets/Reps Tempo
Russian Twists 3 sets 60 seconds 60 seconds
Leg lifts on dip bar 3 sets 60 seconds 60 seconds
Hanging bicycle kicks 3 sets 60 seconds 60 seconds
Yoga ball crunch with vacuum 3 sets 60 seconds 60 seconds

CARDIO:

x3 LISS WEEK 20 mins , Last 5 week were x3 HIIT instead of LISS

This was SADIKS program for 20 weeks i did, he did change a few things over the course but not much.

Macros on cut: THIS IS WHERE I ENDED at week 22 at 2,196 calories, I started at 2450 over a 22-24 week period. and managed to go from 185 to 164.

Macros

LC 2196

p-228g

c-102g

f-97g

HC 2217

p-239g

c-241g

f-33g

ironlifter36 · Dec 27, 2016

toogoods said:
First I wanna thank you for replying and I appreciate the advice . I did sadiks program for 22 weeks total and he basically had me doing 5 days a week 3 days LISS and 2 HIITS as well.

Day 2
Movements Sets/Reps Tempo
Shoulder Press 4 sets of 16 0 seconds
Front Squat 4 sets of 16 60 seconds
Chest Press 4 sets of 16 0 seconds
Deadlift 4 sets of 16 60 seconds
Shrugs 4 sets of 16 0 seconds
Hip Bridges 4 sets of 16 60 seconds
Calf Raises 4 sets of 16 0 seconds
Forearm Curls 4 sets of 16 60 seconds

Day 3
Movements Sets/Reps Tempo
Bench Press 4 sets to failure 0 seconds
SA Bent Over DB Row 4 sets to failure 60 seconds
Leg Extensions 4 sets to failure 0 seconds
Leg Curls 4 sets to failure 60 seconds
Upright Row 4 sets to failure 0 seconds
Lat Pull Downs 4 sets to failure 60 seconds
Leg Press 4 sets to failure 0 seconds
Hack Squat 4 sets to failure 60 seconds

Day 4
Movements Sets/Reps Tempo
Mountain Climbers 4 Sets of 20 seconds 10 seconds
Push ups 4 Sets of 20 seconds 10 seconds
Burpees 4 Sets of 10 Seconds 20 seconds
Overhead Reverse Lunges 4 Sets of 10 Seconds 20 seconds
Box Jumps 4 Sets of 20 seconds 10 seconds
Tire Flips 4 Sets of 20 seconds 10 seconds
High Knees 4 Sets of 10 Seconds 20 seconds
Wide Grip Push ups 4 Sets of 10 Seconds 20 seconds

Day 6
Movements Sets/Reps Tempo
Lat Pull Downs 2 sets of 10 30 seconds
Shurgs 2 sets of 12 30 seconds
Cross Cable Reverse Flies (low) 3 sets of 20 30 seconds
Cross Cable Reverse Flies (high) 4 sets of 13 30 seconds
Straight Arm Cable Pull Downs 4 sets of 8 30 seconds
Standing Cable Row (rope) 6 sets of 10 No 0 seconds
Incline Cable Row (rope) rest between each 0 seconds
Decline Cable Row (rope) until all 3 done 45 seconds

Day 7
Movements Sets/Reps Tempo
Skull Crushers 4 sets to failure 0 seconds
BB Curls 4 sets to failure 60 seconds
Lateral Raises 4 sets to failure 0 seconds
Wide Grip Pull Ups 4 sets to failure 60 seconds
Close Grip Bench Press 4 sets to failure 0 seconds
Inverted Rows 4 sets to failure 60 seconds
Hamstring Curls 4 sets to failure 0 seconds
Leg Extensions 4 sets to failure 60 seconds

CORE ADDED WITH THE WORKOUTS BELOW:

Hanging Leg Raises 3 sets to failure 60 seconds
Plank 3 sets 60 seconds 0 seconds
Mountian climbers 3 sets 60 seconds 0 seconds
Yoga ball Vacuum crunch 3 sets 60 seconds 0 seconds

Day 2
Movements Sets/Reps Tempo
Kneeling cable crunches 3 sets 60 seconds 0 seconds
Toes to bar 3 sets 60 seconds 0 seconds
Hanging leg lifts 3 sets 60 seconds 0 seconds
Plank 3 sets 60 seconds 60 seconds

Day 3
Movements Sets/Reps Tempo
Russian Twists 3 sets 60 seconds 60 seconds
Leg lifts on dip bar 3 sets 60 seconds 60 seconds
Hanging bicycle kicks 3 sets 60 seconds 60 seconds
Yoga ball crunch with vacuum 3 sets 60 seconds 60 seconds

CARDIO:

x3 LISS WEEK 20 mins , Last 5 week were x3 HIIT instead of LISS

This was SADIKS program for 20 weeks i did, he did change a few things over the course but not much.

Macros on cut: THIS IS WHERE I ENDED at week 22 at 2,196 calories, I started at 2450 over a 22-24 week period. and managed to go from 185 to 164.

Macros

LC 2196

p-228g

c-102g

f-97g

HC 2217

p-239g

c-241g

f-33g

Sadik Hadzovic? I googled Sadik and this is what I came up with. Alright, I am not trying to be a dick, I am trying to help you. I will tell you right now, Sadik does not look like that from working this crappy routine. I have fallen for this in the past myself. Since this isn't your workout routine then what I am about to say shouldn't matter. IMO this workout routine is not optimal. While there are some compound lifts, they are not strength oriented. Bench Press to failure? As in 95LBS to failure? Reps of 16 on compound lifts? These are not endurance movements. Compound lifts should be done heavy-relatively speaking in the 6-10 rep range. While we will all argue over the "best" rep range, we will all agree squatting or deadlifting 135 for as many reps as possible won't do shit. Now, if you can only squat 135 for 6-10 reps that's different, but when you can do 11, add another 5lbs ect. Same for your deadlift, OHP, BB Row and bench. Get your squat up to 350 for 5 reps, then you can go back and do 250 for sets of 10. Pushups? This routine looks more like a circuit routine, which is ok except as a natural, your primary goal while cutting is to maintain strength with resistance training. A proper calorie deficit plus cardio will drive the weight loss.

This routine is no good, it has you hitting the same body part day after day. One day is chest press, then the following day is bench press, then the next day is pushups only to be followed the day after with what...yep chest flies. I think the only days that look good are days 1 and 5 and that's because they are rest days. It's no wonder your ending up back at the same place you started.

medeiros13 · Dec 27, 2016

ironlifter36 said:
Sadik Hadzovic? I googled Sadik and this is what I came up with. Alright, I am not trying to be a dick, I am trying to help you. I will tell you right now, Sadik does not look like that from working this crappy routine. I have fallen for this in the past myself. Since this isn't your workout routine then what I am about to say shouldn't matter. IMO this workout routine is not optimal. While there are some compound lifts, they are not strength oriented. Bench Press to failure? As in 95LBS to failure? Reps of 16 on compound lifts? These are not endurance movements. Compound lifts should be done heavy-relatively speaking in the 6-10 rep range. While we will all argue over the "best" rep range, we will all agree squatting or deadlifting 135 for as many reps as possible won't do shit. Now, if you can only squat 135 for 6-10 reps that's different, but when you can do 11, add another 5lbs ect. Same for your deadlift, OHP, BB Row and bench. Get your squat up to 350 for 5 reps, then you can go back and do 250 for sets of 10. Pushups? This routine looks more like a circuit routine, which is ok except as a natural, your primary goal while cutting is to maintain strength with resistance training. A proper calorie deficit plus cardio will drive the weight loss.

This routine is no good, it has you hitting the same body part day after day. One day is chest press, then the following day is bench press, then the next day is pushups only to be followed the day after with what...yep chest flies. I think the only days that look good are days 1 and 5 and that's because they are rest days. It's no wonder your ending up back at the same place you started.

You're getting some very good advice here. LISS cardio for 20 minutes isn't going to do anything.....45-60 minutes for LISS is pretty standard. 20 minutes HIT intervals...now that's different, that's good. 30 min steady state cardio...now you're heading in the right direction.

My advice is to just do an old school routine. back/bi, chest/tri, shoulders, legs/calves...very simple. Focus on compound movements for back, chest, shoulders, legs and then fill in rest of routine with iso movements with a higher rep scheme. I feel like you did some good work but you never built muscle and that hurt you as you tried to reduce body fat to where you were happy with what you saw in the mirror. Cardio was ok...I'd alternate HIT and longer LISS or steady state as I noted above. You seem to know nutrition well enough...go with what you know and adjust when necessary. It isn't rocket science but unfortunately, you've been lead down the wrong path in some ways.

ironlifter36 · Dec 27, 2016

Medeiros is absolutely right. You need a solid routine built around heavy compound lifts filled in with higher rep (8-12) isolation movements. Your routine won't change just because your on a cut.

toogoods · Dec 27, 2016

ironlifter36 said:
Sadik Hadzovic? I googled Sadik and this is what I came up with. Alright, I am not trying to be a dick, I am trying to help you. I will tell you right now, Sadik does not look like that from working this crappy routine. I have fallen for this in the past myself. Since this isn't your workout routine then what I am about to say shouldn't matter. IMO this workout routine is not optimal. While there are some compound lifts, they are not strength oriented. Bench Press to failure? As in 95LBS to failure? Reps of 16 on compound lifts? These are not endurance movements. Compound lifts should be done heavy-relatively speaking in the 6-10 rep range. While we will all argue over the "best" rep range, we will all agree squatting or deadlifting 135 for as many reps as possible won't do shit. Now, if you can only squat 135 for 6-10 reps that's different, but when you can do 11, add another 5lbs ect. Same for your deadlift, OHP, BB Row and bench. Get your squat up to 350 for 5 reps, then you can go back and do 250 for sets of 10. Pushups? This routine looks more like a circuit routine, which is ok except as a natural, your primary goal while cutting is to maintain strength with resistance training. A proper calorie deficit plus cardio will drive the weight loss.

This routine is no good, it has you hitting the same body part day after day. One day is chest press, then the following day is bench press, then the next day is pushups only to be followed the day after with what...yep chest flies. I think the only days that look good are days 1 and 5 and that's because they are rest days. It's no wonder your ending up back at the same place you started.

I didn't understand why I only lost that much weight in 22 weeks almost 6 months, I would of figured I could if been in the 150s at least.

I've learned to trust any process that i take on, so of course I put my trust and heart into this.

Honestly I have a hard time understanding volume and frequency the most I feel like in 5 years I've been lifting I can't quite get the hang of this and your right I feel like I should be alot stronger but im.not sure what's going on honestly.

Diet is not a problem for me as I can do anything thrown at me, this last diet was easy peezy.

ironlifter36 · Dec 27, 2016

No worries bro, we will be glad to help you. I sent you a PM.

toogoods · Dec 27, 2016

ironlifter36 said:
No worries bro, we will be glad to help you. I sent you a PM.

Ty for the information I will absorb this and see how different he is from any other traditional youtuber

, At this point I really want to give this 1 last try before turning to gear as i see it has amazing property's. Would you suggest a sarm for myself or would it make no difference? I just finished this 22 week cut back in september and sorta just been eating what i want and hovering around 173-175 from 166ish, just because i lost a lot of motivation and pretty much accepted that my genetics are bad lol. But ya!

Your inbox is full so i had to reply here

ironlifter36 · Dec 27, 2016

Ok, just cleared it. I would definitely check his videos out. Turning to gear won't change anything if your workout routine is crap. If you need help setting up a better routine, let me know.

ironlifter36 · Dec 27, 2016

Oh the sarms..forgot. I would say priority # 1 is get a solid workout routine in order. #2 is nutrition..while your macro split looked fine, I would personally opt for lower fats/higher carbs. I don't know how you even lift on 100 carbs per day. I cut on around 200 carbs and feel frail. Maybe try 220gP 235C 50F to start and adjust from there. Macro split is really a personal preference.#3 would be some sarms...GW and S4 are excellent.

DylanGemelli · Dec 27, 2016

hey brother, quick question before i get further into this with you... have you had any bloodwork testing your test levels?

toogoods · Dec 28, 2016

DylanGemelli said:
hey brother, quick question before i get further into this with you... have you had any bloodwork testing your test levels?

Yes I have, I posted in the first page my current test levels, as far as prostate, estradiol, Sex hormone and etc, all those check out just fine

all within normal ranges. My t is definitely lower then when I started.

DylanGemelli · Dec 28, 2016

okay, first, i would accommodate your diet for a more cutting based style while you can still build muscle... go with 50-55% protein, 25-30% carbs and 10-15% fats... you need to be doing cardio 4-5 times a week, 30-45 minutes per day mixing steady state and HIIT... you should be working on muscular endurance too... try implementing super sets with minimal rest in between sets... 30-45 seconds...

now, for a cycle... you clearly are not in the position to use steroids however sarms are going to be perfect for you... if your not familiar with sarms, start with my articles here... https://www.isarms.com/selective-androgen-receptor-modulators

here are the links for everything you need to purchase followed by the layout...

https://www.sarmsx.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=124&search=enhanced

https://www.sarmsx.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=138&search=mini

1-12 rad140 20 mg day dosed once a day in the a.m.
1-12 sr9009 30 mg day... 5 mg split doses 2-3 hours apart
1-12 S4 50 mg day... split doses... 25 mg in the a.m. and 25 mg 4-6 hours later
1-12 GW-510516 20 mg day… dosed all at once 30 minutes before workout and non workout days, all at once in the a.m.
9-12 d aspartic acid

Mini pct 13-16

clomid 50/25/25/25
gw-501516 20 mg day

ironlifter36 · Dec 28, 2016

Here is what has worked for me.

4 Day Split

Day 1- Back & Biceps

Deadlift 2 Sets 4-6 Reps*
Lat. Pulldown 3 Sets 8-10 Reps
Barbell Row/T-Bar Row 3 Sets 8-10 Reps
Straight-Arm Lat. Pulldown or DB Pullover 3 Sets 8-12 Reps
Barbell Curl/EZ-Bar Curl 3 Sets 8-10 Reps
Incline DB Curl 3 Sets 8-12 Reps

Day 2 – Chest & Triceps

Barbell Bench/DB Flat Bench 3 Sets 5-8 Reps*
Incline Bench –DB or Barbell 3 Sets 6-10 Reps
Chest Dips (Weighted) 3 Sets 8-10 Reps
Cable or DB Fly 2 Sets 10-12 Reps
Close Grip Bench (Shoulder Width Grip) 3 Sets 8-10 Reps
EZ Bar Skull crushers 3 Sets 8-12 Reps

Day 3 – Rest/ LIIS Cardio **

Day 4 – Shoulders & Traps

Seated Barbell or DB Press 3 Sets 5-8 Reps*
DB Side Lateral Raise 3 Sets 8-12 Reps
Rear Delt. Fly – Cable or DB 3 Sets 8-12 Reps
Upright Row 3 Sets 8-10 Reps
Barbell or DB Shrug 3 Sets 8-10 Reps

Day 5 – Leg’s

Barbell Squat 3 Sets 5-8 Reps*
DB Lunges 3 Sets 8-12 Reps
Leg Press 3 Sets 8-12 Reps
Leg Extensions 2 Sets 10-12 Reps
Leg Curls 2 Sets 10-12 Reps
Seated Calve Raise 3 Sets 8 -12 Reps
Standing Calve Raise 3 Sets 8-12 Reps

Day 6 – Rest/LIIS Cardio**

Day 7 – Rest or REPEAT

*Heavy Compound Movements – These are the lifts you will use to measure progress. These are working sets and do not include warm up sets.

Example of proper warm up:
Let’s say you plan on doing deadlifts with 225lbs. Then the warm up would like like this:
95lbs x 10reps 135lbs x 5 reps 185lbs x 2 reps 225lbs x 1 rep. Then you are ready to start.
You do not have to warm up for the remaining exercises/sets.
Working Sets:
Let’s say you do deadlifts at 225lbs and your sets go as follows:

Set 1 225 for 6 reps
Set 2 225 for 5 reps

Then next week, add 5lbs and work with 230lbs. Once you get one set for 6 reps and the other for at least 4 reps, add another 5lbs.

This same progression applies to all the other exercises/sets. Once you get one set for the top rep range and the other 2 sets within the rep range, add 5lbs next time.

** Rest days should be treated as such. You may do LIIS such as walking/incline walking, but allow your body to recover. Do NOT DO HIIT on Day 3 & 6 rest days. This will impede recovery. If you choose to take Day 7 as a rest day, then you may do HIIT on Day 7.

AB’s – Add ab’s in where needed. I have found my abs grow from weighted movements in the 10-20 rep range. Keep ab workouts to about 10-15 minutes max. 2x week. Doing a lot of abs won’t make them show, only a low body fat % will make them show. The majority of ab development will come from heavy deadlifting and squatting. Below are some good ab exercises:

AB Wheel
Decline Crunch
Cable Crunch
Hanging Leg Raises
Weighted Planks – Once you can do a plank for more than 1 min, add weight on your back.

DO NOT DO weighted side bends for oblique’s. This will only cause your sides/love handles to stick out more.

Sample Cutting Plan – Starting 2200 cal. 240P 198C 50F

Week 1 2200 Cal 4 Day Split Mon, Tues, Thurs, Fri No Cardio
Week 2 2200 Cal 4 Day Split Mon, Tues, Thurs, Fri 1 Hour Cardio Weekly Total
Week 3 2200 Cal 4 Day Split Mon, Tues, Thurs, Fri 1 Hour Cardio Weekly Total 1 Refeed Day*
Week 4 2200 Cal 4 Day Split Mon, Tues, Thurs, Fri 1.5 Hour Cardio Weekly Total 1 Refeed Day*
Week 5 2100 Cal 4 Day Split Mon, Tues, Thurs, Fri 1.5 Hour Cardio Weekly Total 1 Refeed Day*
Week 6 2100 Cal 4 Day Split Mon, Tues, Thurs, Fri 2.0 Hour Cardio Weekly Total 1 Refeed Day*
Week 7 2000 Cal 4 Day Split Mon, Tues, Thurs, Fri 2.5 Hour Cardio Weekly Total 1 Refeed Day*
Week 8 2000 Cal 4 Day Split Mon, Tues, Thurs, Fri 2.5 Hour Cardio Weekly Total 1 Refeed Day*
----------- ------------
Week 9 2200 Cal 4 Day Split Mon, Tues, Thurs, Fri No Cardio
Week 10 2300 Cal 4 Day Split Mon, Tues, Thurs, Fri No Cardio
Week 11 Maintenance Calories Deload Week

Rinse and repeat if needed.

*Refeed Days – Either eat at 2500 Cal. 250 Protein, 310 Carb & 30 Fat OR 1 Cheat Meal

Personally, I have used the above cutting plan with good results. Starting a cut with a bunch of cardio has always led to a fat loss plateau because the metabolism will simply adjust. Instead, by slowing adding in the cardio and reducing calories as the weeks pass prevents fat loss from stalling. Refeed days help reset Leptin. Calorie reduction is made by reducing carbs. I usually stop after week 8 to give myself a mental/physical break instead of grinding it out. I use this time to evaluate progress, rest and recover. Rinse and repeat if needed.

toogoods · Dec 28, 2016

ironlifter36 said:
Here is what has worked for me.

4 Day Split

Day 1- Back & Biceps

Deadlift 2 Sets 4-6 Reps*
Lat. Pulldown 3 Sets 8-10 Reps
Barbell Row/T-Bar Row 3 Sets 8-10 Reps
Straight-Arm Lat. Pulldown or DB Pullover 3 Sets 8-12 Reps
Barbell Curl/EZ-Bar Curl 3 Sets 8-10 Reps
Incline DB Curl 3 Sets 8-12 Reps

Day 2 – Chest & Triceps

Barbell Bench/DB Flat Bench 3 Sets 5-8 Reps*
Incline Bench –DB or Barbell 3 Sets 6-10 Reps
Chest Dips (Weighted) 3 Sets 8-10 Reps
Cable or DB Fly 2 Sets 10-12 Reps
Close Grip Bench (Shoulder Width Grip) 3 Sets 8-10 Reps
EZ Bar Skull crushers 3 Sets 8-12 Reps

Day 3 – Rest/ LIIS Cardio **

Day 4 – Shoulders & Traps

Seated Barbell or DB Press 3 Sets 5-8 Reps*
DB Side Lateral Raise 3 Sets 8-12 Reps
Rear Delt. Fly – Cable or DB 3 Sets 8-12 Reps
Upright Row 3 Sets 8-10 Reps
Barbell or DB Shrug 3 Sets 8-10 Reps

Day 5 – Leg’s

Barbell Squat 3 Sets 5-8 Reps*
DB Lunges 3 Sets 8-12 Reps
Leg Press 3 Sets 8-12 Reps
Leg Extensions 2 Sets 10-12 Reps
Leg Curls 2 Sets 10-12 Reps
Seated Calve Raise 3 Sets 8 -12 Reps
Standing Calve Raise 3 Sets 8-12 Reps

Day 6 – Rest/LIIS Cardio**

Day 7 – Rest or REPEAT

*Heavy Compound Movements – These are the lifts you will use to measure progress. These are working sets and do not include warm up sets.

Example of proper warm up:
Let’s say you plan on doing deadlifts with 225lbs. Then the warm up would like like this:
95lbs x 10reps 135lbs x 5 reps 185lbs x 2 reps 225lbs x 1 rep. Then you are ready to start.
You do not have to warm up for the remaining exercises/sets.
Working Sets:
Let’s say you do deadlifts at 225lbs and your sets go as follows:

Set 1 225 for 6 reps
Set 2 225 for 5 reps

Then next week, add 5lbs and work with 230lbs. Once you get one set for 6 reps and the other for at least 4 reps, add another 5lbs.

This same progression applies to all the other exercises/sets. Once you get one set for the top rep range and the other 2 sets within the rep range, add 5lbs next time.

** Rest days should be treated as such. You may do LIIS such as walking/incline walking, but allow your body to recover. Do NOT DO HIIT on Day 3 & 6 rest days. This will impede recovery. If you choose to take Day 7 as a rest day, then you may do HIIT on Day 7.

AB’s – Add ab’s in where needed. I have found my abs grow from weighted movements in the 10-20 rep range. Keep ab workouts to about 10-15 minutes max. 2x week. Doing a lot of abs won’t make them show, only a low body fat % will make them show. The majority of ab development will come from heavy deadlifting and squatting. Below are some good ab exercises:

AB Wheel
Decline Crunch
Cable Crunch
Hanging Leg Raises
Weighted Planks – Once you can do a plank for more than 1 min, add weight on your back.

DO NOT DO weighted side bends for oblique’s. This will only cause your sides/love handles to stick out more.

Sample Cutting Plan – Starting 2200 cal. 240P 198C 50F

Week 1 2200 Cal 4 Day Split Mon, Tues, Thurs, Fri No Cardio
Week 2 2200 Cal 4 Day Split Mon, Tues, Thurs, Fri 1 Hour Cardio Weekly Total
Week 3 2200 Cal 4 Day Split Mon, Tues, Thurs, Fri 1 Hour Cardio Weekly Total 1 Refeed Day*
Week 4 2200 Cal 4 Day Split Mon, Tues, Thurs, Fri 1.5 Hour Cardio Weekly Total 1 Refeed Day*
Week 5 2100 Cal 4 Day Split Mon, Tues, Thurs, Fri 1.5 Hour Cardio Weekly Total 1 Refeed Day*
Week 6 2100 Cal 4 Day Split Mon, Tues, Thurs, Fri 2.0 Hour Cardio Weekly Total 1 Refeed Day*
Week 7 2000 Cal 4 Day Split Mon, Tues, Thurs, Fri 2.5 Hour Cardio Weekly Total 1 Refeed Day*
Week 8 2000 Cal 4 Day Split Mon, Tues, Thurs, Fri 2.5 Hour Cardio Weekly Total 1 Refeed Day*
----------- ------------
Week 9 2200 Cal 4 Day Split Mon, Tues, Thurs, Fri No Cardio
Week 10 2300 Cal 4 Day Split Mon, Tues, Thurs, Fri No Cardio
Week 11 Maintenance Calories Deload Week

Rinse and repeat if needed.

*Refeed Days – Either eat at 2500 Cal. 250 Protein, 310 Carb & 30 Fat OR 1 Cheat Meal

Personally, I have used the above cutting plan with good results. Starting a cut with a bunch of cardio has always led to a fat loss plateau because the metabolism will simply adjust. Instead, by slowing adding in the cardio and reducing calories as the weeks pass prevents fat loss from stalling. Refeed days help reset Leptin. Calorie reduction is made by reducing carbs. I usually stop after week 8 to give myself a mental/physical break instead of grinding it out. I use this time to evaluate progress, rest and recover. Rinse and repeat if needed.

I know This is a sample cutting plan, but are those actual macros for my numbers or just a sample? Just clarifying this. Also the reefed day when u say 1 cheat meal? is that meaning just 1 big meal for the whole day or on top of the reefed days?'

Should I adjust these numbers if im not moving down in the scale? I know this is a sample and all, thanks again this is a big help

ironlifter36 · Dec 28, 2016

The sample cutting plan was based on my numbers, not yours. I am 5'10, 175 at around 9-10% Body fat. My TDEE is around 2600cal

Also, the sample cutting plan above is simply to illustrate a decrease in calories overtime and increase in cardio overtime. I don't do prolonged, extended cuts. What worked for me was a step down method. I did the above cutting routine about 3 -4 times over the course of a year to get from 25% Body fat down to around 8%. Before, when I would do long cuts, I would get stuck around 15% BF. By doing multiple shorter cuts, it allowed me to bust thru that plateau. This doesn't mean the cutting routine above is the right way, but it's what worked for me. Sure, you can do a 24 week cut and maybe loose 24lbs, but how much of that 24lbs is fat and how much is muscle? By doing shorter cuts, I was able to loose mostly fat and less muscle.

As for the refeed days, I normally do a higher carb/calorie day. Say my normal cutting macros were 240P, 198C & 50F instead I would do 250P, 310C & 30F. As for the cheat meal, you would eat your normal cutting meal plan that day except 1 meal would be a cheat meal. That doesn't meal go eat a large pizza or something ridiculous, just eat something you enjoy in a controlled manor. Personally, I prefer the higher carb/calorie day once a week simply because I am obsessive compulsive and want to control my macros/calories to the last detail on a cut. Choose either a higher carb/calorie day or a cheat meal once a week..not both. And certainly not a cheat day.

Dylan gave you a great Sarms layout. He is also correct in advising you to change your macros towards lower fat.

toogoods · Dec 28, 2016

ironlifter36 said:
The sample cutting plan was based on my numbers, not yours. I am 5'10, 175 at around 9-10% Body fat. My TDEE is around 2600cal

Also, the sample cutting plan above is simply to illustrate a decrease in calories overtime and increase in cardio overtime. I don't do prolonged, extended cuts. What worked for me was a step down method. I did the above cutting routine about 3 -4 times over the course of a year to get from 25% Body fat down to around 8%. Before, when I would do long cuts, I would get stuck around 15% BF. By doing multiple shorter cuts, it allowed me to bust thru that plateau. This doesn't mean the cutting routine above is the right way, but it's what worked for me. Sure, you can do a 24 week cut and maybe loose 24lbs, but how much of that 24lbs is fat and how much is muscle? By doing shorter cuts, I was able to loose mostly fat and less muscle.

As for the refeed days, I normally do a higher carb/calorie day. Say my normal cutting macros were 240P, 198C & 50F instead I would do 250P, 310C & 30F. As for the cheat meal, you would eat your normal cutting meal plan that day except 1 meal would be a cheat meal. That doesn't meal go eat a large pizza or something ridiculous, just eat something you enjoy in a controlled manor. Personally, I prefer the higher carb/calorie day once a week simply because I am obsessive compulsive and want to control my macros/calories to the last detail on a cut. Choose either a higher carb/calorie day or a cheat meal once a week..not both. And certainly not a cheat day.

Dylan gave you a great Sarms layout. He is also correct in advising you to change your macros towards lower fat.

Thanks a lot man, Really appreciate the help, you have no idea! I did take a look at his links, that stack is almost $850, that's insane HA, I think I will just try GW only and see how that goes, that's just a lot of money for a college student, even if it is amazing stuff! I bought 4 bottles of test for $250 test-cyp pharm grade, and have been holding on to it for 5 months now. But not knocking this down, just way too expensive for me to buy that whole stack.

Also I agree Im starting to realize long cuts 16 weeks + is not working out well for me, id hit a hard stall around 12-13 weeks.

Advice, Where to go from here. A struggle.

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